EA's Frostbite Engine Has Been Internally Up And Running On Linux

[birdie]

Guess what birdie? That's EXACTLY what all Windows games do, just without sandboxing. That is literally how both Windows and OSX deal with DLL hell. Linux does better than either of them by doing that AND actually sandboxing the executables. Literally the only thing that installs to The System on Windows for games as opposed to the installation folder is Physx which was a pain in the ass for years to deal with as a result because it meant that some games would be compatible with the system's version of Physx and other's wouldn't resulting in having to flip around the installation for whichever game you wanted to play. Nvidia finally set up their support so you could have dual installation which seems to have fixed that now.

Given that you're pleased with Windows executables you must therefore be doubly pleased with Flatpaks in order to be logically consistent.

Why do the Linux fanboys keep talking shit?

Do me a favour: install top ten Steam releases as of today and show me that they indeed bundle over 20 system libraries.

In reality they bundle a) dxsetup (because default Windows 7 install doesn't have many updated D3D libraries) and sometimes b) they bundle MSVC (vcredist_$arch_year) libraries.

That's fucking all. It's maddening to talk to Linux fanatics. They imagine things clearly out of this world.

[duby229]

Why do the Linux fanboys keep talking shit?

Do me a favour: install top ten Steam releases as of today and show me that they indeed bundle over 20 system libraries.

In reality they bundle a) dxsetup (because default Windows 7 install doesn't have many updated D3D libraries) and sometimes b) they bundle MSVC (vcredist_$arch_year) libraries.

That's fucking all. It's maddening to talk to Linux fanatics. They imagine things clearly out of this world.

Yeah, but your not realizing a whole lot of other stuff too. Like compression libraries or media decoding libraries. Even things like network protocols or path finding protocols.

[birdie]

Which will happen in a few years anyway as its main code isn't audited nor receives security patches.

Setting up properly the distro's firewall (they have per-application settings) will work fine for this, as the sandboxing won't allow the sandboxed application to touch firewall settings, and if the game application does not have permission to spam packets on SSH/Telnet/whatever, but can only send packets to/from its own dedicated ports, any remote exploitation can't damage your local network (as the game's ports are usually not used by anything else).[/URL]

when they ship their own local libraries for everything. Really, I've seen enough applications in Windows land. Shipping their own libs is a thing.

My main point was that Linux idiots, given the fact that LSB died without gaining any traction and interoperability in Linux is a joke, say that all proprietary software for Linux must be bundled as Flatpaks/Snaps/AppImage/whatever, basically VM images in disguise. As I've mentioned too many times that means 1) packages which weigh in hundreds of megabytes 2) packages which will be eventually riddled with serious vulnerabilities 3) packages which take an order of magnitude more time to launch and memory to use 4) such applications are very difficult to setup for proper interaction with your desktop environment. And more importantly, ISVs hate this idea too.

99.5% of users have no idea how networking works and they sure as hell won't touch firewall settings. So, you're clearly bluffing.

I don't remember the last time I saw a Windows application bundle system libraries and I deal with quite a lot of Windows software. WinSxS mostly solved those issues.

[birdie]

Yeah, but your not realizing a whole lot of other stuff too. Like compression libraries or media decoding libraries. Even things like network protocols or path finding protocols.

Sir, please, install top ten Steam releases and show me which system Windows libraries they override. I beg you. I'm just tired of BS. I do understand it's a herd mentality to say that your opponent/enemy/competitor sucks for the sake of their name but we are in 2017, not in 5000 BC. It's not too late to learn to argue like an intelligent knowledgeable adult.

[duby229]

Sir, please, install top ten Steam releases and show me which system Windows libraries they override. I beg you. I'm just tired of BS. I do understand it's a herd mentality to say that your opponent/enemy/competitor sucks for the sake of their name but we are in 2017, not in 5000 BC. It's not too late to learn to argue like an intelligent knowledgeable adult.

Which was not and is not the argument. The bottom line fact is that Windows doesn't do package management. It never did. If you want the libraries you need then you have no other option but to bundle them. On Windows it's the only way you're gonna get them. Most windows binaries are compiled with most libraries built into the binary. Dynamic linking on Windows has some very serious drawbacks. The only one arguing in this thread that sounds like an undereducated child is you.

EDIT: If you want a comparable scenario on Linux then Flatpack is the closest thing and is better in many, many ways.

[Luke_Wolf]

Why do the Linux fanboys keep talking shit?

Do me a favour: install top ten Steam releases as of today and show me that they indeed bundle over 20 system libraries.

In reality they bundle a) dxsetup (because default Windows 7 install doesn't have many updated D3D libraries) and sometimes b) they bundle MSVC (vcredist_$arch_year) libraries.

That's fucking all. It's maddening to talk to Linux fanatics. They imagine things clearly out of this world.

Define System Library, but if we're calling external dependencies well I'm not going to do 10 of these as that would make this post huge, but here's the directory of game binary of 5 recent big games (in the case of X Rebirth the folder clipped down to the dlls and exes):
Watch Dogs 2

-a----        3/18/2017  11:26 PM         109056 amd_ags_x64.dll
-a----        3/18/2017  11:26 PM          96624 AnselSDK64.dll
-a----        3/18/2017  11:26 PM         372224 bink2w64.dll
-a----        4/17/2017   9:24 PM        1783296 coreextension.dll
-a----        3/18/2017  11:26 PM        3873224 d3dcompiler_46.dll
-a----        3/18/2017  11:26 PM         309448 dbdata.dll
-a----        3/18/2017  11:26 PM        1343032 DbgHelp.dll
-a----         8/3/2017   6:10 AM      138910128 Disrupt_64.dll
-a----        3/18/2017  11:27 PM              0 distribution.steam
-a----        3/18/2017  11:27 PM        2486272 GFSDK_ShadowLib_DX11.win64.dll
-a----        3/18/2017  11:27 PM        1195008 GFSDK_SSAO_D3D11.win64.dll
-a----        3/18/2017  11:26 PM         896000 GFSDK_TXAA.win64.dll
-a----        3/18/2017  11:27 PM         125952 libScePad.dll
-a----         8/3/2017   6:10 AM         516016 SplashScreen.exe
-a----        3/18/2017  11:26 PM         235600 steam_api64.dll
-a----        3/18/2017  11:26 PM         327880 uplay_r1_loader64.dll
-a----         8/3/2017   6:10 AM         537008 WatchDogs2.exe

Wolfenstein The New Order

Mode                LastWriteTime         Length Name
----                -------------         ------ ----
d-----       12/29/2015  12:52 AM                base
d-----       12/26/2015  12:23 AM                virtualtextures
d-----       12/26/2015  12:19 AM                _CommonRedist
-a----       12/26/2015  12:40 AM         430592 bink2w64.dll
-a----       12/26/2015  12:40 AM         576616 cudart64_40_17.dll
-a----       12/26/2015  12:40 AM         121256 steam_api64.dll
-a----       12/26/2015  12:40 AM         295936 superscriptx64.dll
-a----       12/26/2015  12:40 AM       26345040 WolfNewOrder_x64.exe

X Rebirth:

-a----         2/6/2016   1:47 PM        6288896 avcodec_64-55.dll
-a----         2/6/2016   1:47 PM        1412608 avformat_64-55.dll
-a----         2/6/2016   1:47 PM         346624 avutil_64-52.dll
-a----         2/6/2016   1:46 PM              4 lang.dat
-a----        4/19/2017   7:10 PM          72948 Licences.txt
-a----        4/19/2017   7:11 PM        1098240 lua51_64.dll
-a----        4/19/2017   7:10 PM         235600 steam_api64.dll
-a----         2/6/2016   1:47 PM         416256 swscale_64-2.dll
-a----        4/19/2017   7:10 PM              5 version.dat
-a----         2/6/2016   1:46 PM              4 voicelang.dat
-a----        4/19/2017   7:11 PM       23181312 XRebirth.exe

Serious Sam 2017 Fusion

-a----         5/4/2017   8:38 PM         107520 amd_ags_x64.dll
-a----         5/4/2017   8:38 PM        4173928 D3DCompiler_47.dll
-a----        7/20/2017   3:07 PM          71168 libdshowcapture.dll
-a----         5/4/2017   8:38 PM         566272 OpenAL32.dll
-a----        7/20/2017   3:07 PM       29067216 Sam2017.exe
-a----        7/20/2017   3:07 PM       29066192 Sam2017_Unrestricted.exe
-a----         5/4/2017   8:38 PM         204880 steam_api64.dll
-a----         5/4/2017   8:39 PM        1591536 tobii_stream_engine.dll
-a----        7/20/2017   3:07 PM          28160 VideoCapture_DShow.dll

Hitman Absolution

d-----         9/6/2015   2:40 PM                runtime
-a----        3/22/2015   9:10 PM           2737 benchmark.ini
-a----        3/22/2015   9:10 PM           2026 benchmark.txt
-a----        3/23/2015   9:28 PM            684 benchmarkresults.txt
-a----        3/22/2015   9:10 PM         226304 binkw32.dll
-a----        3/22/2015   9:10 PM         290408 cudart32_30_9.dll
-a----        3/22/2015   9:10 PM        2106216 D3DCOMPILER_43.DLL
-a----        3/22/2015   9:10 PM         248672 D3DX11_43.DLL
-a----        3/22/2015   9:10 PM        1060864 fmodex.dll
-a----        3/22/2015  11:10 PM       35039000 HMA.exe
-a----        3/22/2015   9:10 PM         421200 MSVCP100.DLL
-a----        3/22/2015   9:10 PM         773968 MSVCR100.DLL
-a----        3/22/2015   9:10 PM         116224 NxCharacter.dll
-a----        3/22/2015   9:10 PM        3709440 PhysXCore.dll
-a----        3/22/2015   9:10 PM         197912 PhysXCudart_20.dll
-a----        3/22/2015   9:10 PM          71008 PhysXDevice.dll
-a----        3/22/2015   9:10 PM          51200 PhysXLoader.dll
-a----        3/22/2015  11:10 PM              8 SKU.dat
-a----        3/22/2015  11:03 PM         120616 steam_api.dll

Edit, as a Bonus: The Witcher 3 The Wild Hunt:

-a----         6/8/2016   3:43 PM         929280 APEX_ClothingGPU_x64.dll
-a----         6/8/2016   3:57 PM         649064 cudart64_50_35.dll
-a----         6/8/2016   2:54 PM        3873224 d3dcompiler_46.dll
-a----         6/8/2016   3:00 PM        4173928 d3dcompiler_47.dll
-a----         6/8/2016   3:17 PM        5023744 Galaxy.dll
-a----         6/8/2016   3:28 PM        1422336 GFSDK_HairWorks.win64.dll
-a----         6/8/2016   3:57 PM         918016 GFSDK_SSAO.win64.dll
-a----         6/8/2016   3:51 PM         433152 glew32.dll
-a----         9/7/2016   9:08 AM         241760 goggame-1207664643.dll
-a----         6/8/2016   3:51 PM       12180992 GRB_1_1_api3_x64.dll
-a----         6/8/2016   2:59 PM          92160 loopback-capture.dll
-a----         6/8/2016   3:17 PM         849360 msvcr110.dll
-a----         6/8/2016   3:17 PM        1983440 msvcr110d.dll
-a----        8/16/2016   7:53 AM          13824 NvCameraSDK64.dll
-a----         6/8/2016   2:54 PM        9518080 NVHairExt_x64.dll
-a----         6/8/2016   3:57 PM         406528 NVHair_x64.dll
-a----         6/8/2016   3:57 PM          42496 nvToolsExt64_1.dll
-a----         6/8/2016   2:49 PM        2041344 PhysX3Common_x64.dll
-a----         6/8/2016   3:08 PM       10243368 PhysX3Gpu_x64.dll
-a----         6/8/2016   3:44 PM          65928 PhysXDevice64.dll
-a----         6/8/2016   2:59 PM        5152256 SimplygonSDKCLIReleasex64.dll
-a----         6/8/2016   2:59 PM        1485312 umbraoptimizer64.dll
-a----        9/12/2016   9:26 AM       46536784 witcher3.exe
-a----        6/17/2016   6:08 PM         107368 xinput1_3.dll

[birdie]

Define System Library, but if we're calling external dependencies well I'm not going to do 10 of these as that would make this post huge, but here's the directory of game binary of 5 recent big games (in the case of X Rebirth the folder clipped down to the dlls and exes):

Clearly the meaning of "system libraries" escapes you altogether. I see that most of these games have their own copies of D3D libraries (which I mentioned already), MSVC libraries (which I also mentioned earlier) and some of them come with new PhysX libraries (they are not system in any meaning of this word - PhysX is NVIDIA's proprietary technology).

Over 95% of all other DLLs are specific to the games which use them. You worked hard yet you proved my point. Thank you.

Last but not least, why do we need +200 Linux distros when just three versions of Windows (7/8/10) can be made to run Flatpaks?

[birdie]

Which was not and is not the argument. The bottom line fact is that Windows doesn't do package management. It never did. If you want the libraries you need then you have no other option but to bundle them. On Windows it's the only way you're gonna get them. Most windows binaries are compiled with most libraries built into the binary. Dynamic linking on Windows has some very serious drawbacks. The only one arguing in this thread that sounds like an undereducated child is you.

EDIT: If you want a comparable scenario on Linux then Flatpack is the closest thing and is better in many, many ways.

You're lying and misinforming and there will be no proofs. If you were a little bit more educated, and not the egregiously lying fanboy who you're, you'd know that in Windows it's impossible to statically link system libraries. Now, fuck off and I don't want to hear anything from you ever again. Go dig a hole and jerk off to your favourite Linux distro. You'll feel better.

It's amazing how many rabid imbecile fanboys inhabit Linux related forums.

[gamerk2]

Why do the Linux fanboys keep talking shit?

Do me a favour: install top ten Steam releases as of today and show me that they indeed bundle over 20 system libraries.

In reality they bundle a) dxsetup (because default Windows 7 install doesn't have many updated D3D libraries) and sometimes b) they bundle MSVC (vcredist_$arch_year) libraries.

That's fucking all. It's maddening to talk to Linux fanatics. They imagine things clearly out of this world.

To be fair though, that's by design. Support libraries are external to the application, and should be bundled separately in case of future updates [granted, this almost never happens post release]. The downside obviously is a good dozen different versions of the MSVC Redistributable package being installed, but all that really costs is HD space, which isn't exactly at a premium these days.

[duby229]

You're lying and misinforming and there will be no proofs. If you were a little bit more educated, and not the egregiously lying fanboy who you're, you'd know that in Windows it's impossible to statically link system libraries. Now, fuck off and I don't want to hear anything from you ever again. Go dig a hole and jerk off to your favourite Linux distro. You'll feel better.

It's amazing how many rabid imbecile fanboys inhabit Linux related forums.

And meanwhile you still don't understand even though its been laid out plainly. You can insist that only system libraries exist.... But let me repeat myself..... WINDOWS DOESN'T DO PACKAGE MANAGEMENT! IT NEVER DID! If you need a library then you have no option but to bundle it. It literally is the only way you're going to get it on windows.