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Linux GPU Driver Issues Are Still Holding Up Games In 2017

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  • #21
    > I think that most games which demand OpenGL 4.5 compatibility profile are simply broken.

    And this is the constant refrain from many in the Linux community - It's not that the graphics drivers are faulty, it's just that the software that doesn't work with them are buggy or badly written. And instead of the drivers being fixed, all the software that doesn't work with them should be rewritten.

    Even the number one PC gaming platform, Steam, for goodness sake.

    This is a major reason why things are getting worse instead of better - A complete lack of recognition, and subsequent rejection, of objective reality.

    The world is not going to rewrite all the software that doesn't run on Linux because some developers refuse to acknowledge such a simple and undeniable truth.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by birdie View Post

      So how do you like the fact that a properly written application for Windows may work for up to twenty years (a lot of Win32 applications for Windows 95 work just fine in Windows 10) without recompilation and/or changes to the source code, while the same is near impossible for Linux? Or, and disregard the total imbeciles who call me a troll here - most, if not all of them, have done exactly nothing for Linux/Open Source. Their contribution to Linux is strictly limited to shatting in various online discussions.
      I can still run UT99 which was released for linux in 99. It's closed-source, so of course it is done without recompilation and change of source code.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by muncrief View Post
        >Even the number one PC gaming platform, Steam, for goodness sake.
        Steam works perfectly fine on mesa drivers.

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        • #24
          > Steam works perfectly fine on mesa drivers.

          No, both the native Steam Linux version and the Windows version under Wine detect the OpenGL version as 3.x, depending on the mesa version used.

          As I said, so long as developers keep blaming the world instead of their drivers things are going to continue to get worse. The world will continue to write software as it always has, often with even more advanced versions of OpenGL, and Linux will continue to not support it.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by muncrief View Post
            > Steam works perfectly fine on mesa drivers.

            No, both the native Steam Linux version and the Windows version under Wine detect the OpenGL version as 3.x, depending on the mesa version used.
            So what? What's broken? That it says a different number than you want it to say?

            If Steam was actually broken, it would have been fixed by now. The reason it hasn't is that it's not actually broken at all.

            *Hint* Steam doesn't used advanced OpenGL features. Everything it does can be done on GL3.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by birdie View Post

              Please remind me how many AAA titles does Linux get. 1% or less? I don't care about Indie games - I don't play them, but out of over 60 games that I've bought on Steam only 5 are available for Linux. Tell me more about gaming in Linux, please. I'm all ears.
              Sheet1 Name of game,Linux support?,With WINE? (Platinum)***,with WINE? (Gold)***,Peak Players 5/18/17,%Native Linux games,%Linux-compatible players,% Games non-native,%Non-native game players Counter-Strike: Global Offensive,1,556,999,45%,73.02%,55%,26.98% Dota 2,1,838,472 PlayerUnknown's Battle...


              When you fail at trolling after you do it for so long, you may want to consider another career.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by muncrief View Post
                > I think that most games which demand OpenGL 4.5 compatibility profile are simply broken.

                And this is the constant refrain from many in the Linux community - It's not that the graphics drivers are faulty, it's just that the software that doesn't work with them are buggy or badly written. And instead of the drivers being fixed, all the software that doesn't work with them should be rewritten.

                Even the number one PC gaming platform, Steam, for goodness sake.

                This is a major reason why things are getting worse instead of better - A complete lack of recognition, and subsequent rejection, of objective reality.

                The world is not going to rewrite all the software that doesn't run on Linux because some developers refuse to acknowledge such a simple and undeniable truth.
                That there are people here who disagree with your view shows that the supposed "objective reality" is not so objective as you want to make it. You're also severely exaggerating the impact of the lack of compat profile support in mesa - there are exactly four games that the mesa devs have found out require compatibility profiles, three of them erroneously (they don't actually use any of the compat features), the situation with the fourth is less clear. See here for details: https://lists.freedesktop.org/archiv...ry/143893.html

                A very clear indication that software that doesn't ask for a core profile when using advanced features is indeed broken. Ok, there's applications in the enterprise world that actually do need compat profiles, but that's the enterprise world, which is a lot more static than the gaming world. Whatever issues there are in the gaming world, the lack of compat profiles is *not* one of them.

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                • #28
                  > So what? What's broken? That it says a different number than you want it to say?

                  Obviously the problem is that software which requires OpenGL compatibility modes above 3.x won't work. And Steam is simply an apt example that, despite what many developers claim, modern and well written software does indeed use OpenGL compatibility mode.

                  So this will be my last post on the subject since the reality is, well, reality. And continuing to reveal it isn't going to change the minds of those who simply refuse to accept it.

                  Without the OpenGL compatibility mode being the same as the core mode various current and future software will never work on Linux. And the world is simply not going to rewrite software so that it will.

                  It's not something that can be argued. It's just a simple truth that cannot be credibly denied.

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Gusar View Post

                    That there are people here who disagree with your view shows that the supposed "objective reality" is not so objective as you want to make it. You're also severely exaggerating the impact of the lack of compat profile support in mesa - there are exactly four games that the mesa devs have found out require compatibility profiles, three of them erroneously (they don't actually use any of the compat features), the situation with the fourth is less clear. See here for details: https://lists.freedesktop.org/archiv...ry/143893.html

                    A very clear indication that software that doesn't ask for a core profile when using advanced features is indeed broken. Ok, there's applications in the enterprise world that actually do need compat profiles, but that's the enterprise world, which is a lot more static than the gaming world. Whatever issues there are in the gaming world, the lack of compat profiles is *not* one of them.
                    And Dying Light was already fixed with another application specific workaround in another patch series - again it had nothing to do with the compat profile, but with the shaders redeclaring things that the spec says you shouldn't redeclare.

                    The thing with implementing the compatibility profile support is that it's not clear how that would even be done. The spec just says you can do it, without specifying any of the details. Which means that the NVIdia and AMD proprietary drivers (the only 2 that implement it) did things differently, and all apps that use that are just tested against those drivers until they work. So any kind of work implementing it on Mesa would have to start with reverse-engineering what those other 2 drivers are doing, what the apps using it need, and hoping that it all works out to 1 behaviour. Otherwise they're going to have to do things like spoofing the driver name to fool the app into thinking it's under one of the proprietary drivers so it takes whatever driver-specific logic it's relying on.

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                    • #30
                      > That there are people here who disagree with your view shows that the supposed "objective reality" is not so objective as you want to make it. You're also severely exaggerating the impact of the lack of compat profile support in mesa - there are exactly four games that the mesa devs have found out require compatibility profiles, three of them erroneously (they don't actually use any of the compat features), the situation with the fourth is less clear. See here for details: https://lists.freedesktop.org/archiv...ry/143893.html

                      Then they have not looked hard enough. For example No Man's Sky, a very modern game, requires OpenGL 4.5 compatibility mode. And the mesa override variables do nothing to make it work.

                      And as I said, things will only continue to get worse because the world is not going to rewrite their software, or change the way they write software in the future, because Linux developers arbitrarily claim they should.

                      Accept it or not, that is simply the undeniable reality.

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