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Linux GPU Driver Issues Are Still Holding Up Games In 2017

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  • #31
    Originally posted by muncrief View Post
    > So what? What's broken? That it says a different number than you want it to say?

    Obviously the problem is that software which requires OpenGL compatibility modes above 3.x won't work.
    But Steam doesn't require that, so there is no problem.

    And Steam is simply an apt example that, despite what many developers claim, modern and well written software does indeed use OpenGL compatibility mode.
    Steam works fine, and doesn't actually use the compatibility mode at all. It just uses GL 3, which means compat vs. core profile doesn't even come into play.

    So this will be my last post on the subject since the reality is, well, reality. And continuing to reveal it isn't going to change the minds of those who simply refuse to accept it.
    Yes, reality is reality, but you seem to have difficulty in seeing it rather than your own personal opinions.

    Without the OpenGL compatibility mode being the same as the core mode various current and future software will never work on Linux.
    There are already application workarounds in the drivers for most of the current software, and for future software the record is pretty clear that new stuff is being written to use it. Anything that is designed to work on Linux or OSX, anyway. Perhaps OpenGL titles meant only for Windows are an issue, but that is dying out anyway with the advent of Vulkan and the continuing dominance of DirectX.

    It's not something that can be argued. It's just a simple truth that cannot be credibly denied.
    You can continue just blindly claiming there are problems all you want, that doesn't make it the truth. Point out specific examples of problems that won't get solved if you want anyone to take you seriously. That Steam doesn't list the correct number is the only thing you bring up just makes you look ridiculous.


    • #32
      Originally posted by muncrief View Post
      > That there are people here who disagree with your view shows that the supposed "objective reality" is not so objective as you want to make it. You're also severely exaggerating the impact of the lack of compat profile support in mesa - there are exactly four games that the mesa devs have found out require compatibility profiles, three of them erroneously (they don't actually use any of the compat features), the situation with the fourth is less clear. See here for details:

      Then they have not looked hard enough. For example No Man's Sky, a very modern game, requires OpenGL 4.5 compatibility mode. And the mesa override variables do nothing to make it work.

      And as I said, things will only continue to get worse because the world is not going to rewrite their software, or change the way they write software in the future, because Linux developers arbitrarily claim they should.

      Accept it or not, that is simply the undeniable reality.
      So much for that being your last post.

      The 4 games listed were the only ones designed for Linux - so they didn't include windows games running through wine.

      That's a bug in WINE that needs to get fixed, but ultimately it's silly to complain that future games won't work. Future windows games are going to use Vulkan (or else DirectX), neither of which have that problem.

      And what else is there besides No Man's Sky, by the way? Doom - but that has a Vulkan mode which is superior anyway. And...... Anything else?


      • #33
        While the drivers have come along way, you do still need hacky type workarounds for several popular games on steam. I'm using latest mesa and allot of distros still don't have 17.1 out the door, or kernel 4.11. I had to go into testing branches to get them, something a simple Linux user wouldn't know to do, and I still needed to play with special launch options for games to get the best performance. (or workaround no launch issues)

        I think steam is partly to blame also, it needs some special sauce code that finds dependencies smartly instead of just using its native ones or runtime. At which it can still guess wrong on where they are at times.


        • #34
          Originally posted by muncrief View Post
          I'm sorry to be so harsh but sooner or later someone has to speak the absolute truth.
          Absolute truth is there is no absolute standards for anything, just something that nearly looks like it

          Proof for that is that even specs have bugs, also most conformant drivers does not pass all the tests and that is just one build at one point in time, it is driver version you won't ever have in your hands and all that is just for the marketing reasons

          So with that i can conclude absolute truth which is that - one shit runs another shit, with more or less success

          edit: But you know what, unlike other implementations nVidia probably impelments all the specs but with all the spec bugs supported too... yes, spec bugs are supported too as you never knows who might depend on a bug To say it like this - respect all your shits so that others respect you, and do not be ashamed about that as you must support all your shits all the time
          Last edited by dungeon; 21 May 2017, 01:10 PM.


          • #35
            This thread is another perfect example of herd mentality. People chose Linux and now they try to justify their choice even in the face of hard evidence that Linux as a gaming platform/software platform is a failure. You see "arguments" like, "but I'm content with the games which have been ported so far", "I don't need AAA games", "PS4 also has some games not ported to Windows", "It's not Linux drivers problems, but incorrectly coded games" – all of which are pure BS because for the most part they don't exist in proprietary OSes but who cares?

            I know it's hard to admit that ISVs refuse to target a moving platform where API/ABI compatibility is practically a joke, where you have dozens of incompatible distros, where you have several packaging formats, etc. etc .etc. It's really a sad, cold picture – yet I'm called a troll for calling out the critical Linux issues.

            OK, I've made it all up. Now tell me how can I configure the voltage curve of my GPU in Linux? That's trivially done in Windows. There are actually dozens of things that can be done in Windows that cannot be done in Linux but who cares? It's all someone's (not Linux or its developers) fault. The Linux/underdog mentality is always to blame someone else rather than to admit that your beloved entity is an underdog for a reason. Anyways, who am I preaching to? Some random dudes who've done nothing for Linux. Off to better pastures where sane people converse. Like the comments section of the same website.


            • #36
              Originally posted by birdie View Post

              Please remind me how many AAA titles does Linux get. 1% or less? I don't care about Indie games - I don't play them, but out of over 60 games that I've bought on Steam only 5 are available for Linux. Tell me more about gaming in Linux, please. I'm all ears.

              Oh and zero games that I own in UPlay and Origin are available for Linux. Amazing!
              First off, it's EA and Ubisoft's job to make their app run on Linux. If I write a book in Kwazulu and decide not to translate it, certainly it won't be your job to learn that language to read my book. Instead, it's going to be my job to translate it or have it translated.

              Secondly, do you really expect EA to make Linux games? I mean, we're talking about the same EA that considered widescreen resolutions exotic in late 2006... Right?


              • #37
                Well Linux desktop is a huge mess in general, from poor quality graphic and other drivers to fragmentation into zillion desktops and bugs in each of them, things not working at all, half-working, missing functionality etc. And people are still talking about Linux gaming, what Linux games? Indie level stuff that looks seriously dated? A handful of AAA games that quite often perform far worse than Windows version? Linux gaming is a joke compared to Windows. Linux is great for supercomputers, mainframes, servers, cloud and embedded devices, but on the desktop it is going down the drain fast, after 26 years it has 2% of market share on desktops, in another 26 years it might even reach 3%. While Windows and OSX are progressing more and more on the desktop, Linux users are still bitching about what distribution is the best, what desktop environment is the best and get into nerd rages about all that. I have been using Linux since 1990s and the state of Linux desktop is not much better than back then, it is plagued with multitude of small bugs everywhere, always tweaking, always fixing, always "maintaining" which is why Linux desktop will forever remain something only hobbyists and enthusiasts will use.


                • #38
                  It doesn't sound really competent to me. Why are they looking for workarounds? Either their code is compliant with standards so the bug has to be fixed in the drivers or it's not - then they should fix their own game code. Of course Nvidia would find a workaround in their driver just for this game so they don't fix their code and it still won't run with clean open source drivers. You know it's just Nvidia.

                  But that's the wrong way - they should say: "We tested it with Mesa. And we also tested it with the proprietary Nvidia driver just because Nouveau was quite slow. And we're trying to find a reason in either obtainable code to fix this issue."
                  Last edited by oooverclocker; 21 May 2017, 02:03 PM.


                  • #39
                    I think graphics card drivers have come a very long way on GNU/Linux in the past years. I am especially impressed with the open-source AMD drivers.

                    Yes, there is still work to be done. But demanding AAA titles like Deus Ex already run beautifully on GNU/Linux _today_.

                    Games like Everspace show areas where improvement is still necessary. In my experience the drivers will be adapted in a timely manner by the amazinging developers working on it. Look at how several of the Feral ports pushed the boundaries.

                    I am very happy with where gaming on GNU/Linux is. With a couple thousand Steam games and quite a few AAA titles GNU/Linux already is an _amazing_ gaming platform that outperforms most consoles.

                    I am confident that the future will be even brighter thanks to the companies and open-source developers making GNU/Linux better with an ever-growing library of titles every day.


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by birdie View Post

                      So how do you like the fact that a properly written application for Windows may work for up to twenty years (a lot of Win32 applications for Windows 95 work just fine in Windows 10) without recompilation and/or changes to the source code, while the same is near impossible for Linux? Or, and disregard the total imbeciles who call me a troll here - most, if not all of them, have done exactly nothing for Linux/Open Source. Their contribution to Linux is strictly limited to shatting in various online discussions.
                      I was able to get Heavy Gear 2 published by Loki to work fine on my Debian Unstable setup. That's a 17 year old game in a modern Linux distribution. Also, I've had better luck in running Interstate '76 through Wine, then I did on Windows 7 (haven't tried it in 8 or 10).