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Steam Dev Days: VR, VR, VR; Valve Looking To Contract Mesa Developers For AMD Work

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Lucretia View Post
    And yest radeonsi is a dead end for modern cards, we should be using amdgpu, but we can't fully, because of lacking patches. More work seems to be happening in radeonsi than amdgpu - er, the future of amd drivers, yet lacking.
    I don't understand this. The amdgpu drivers are kernel and DDX, while radeonsi is a Mesa HW layer (Gallium3D) driver which works with both radeon and amdgpu.

    They are different parts of the same stack.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by juno View Post
      Valve is competing with Microsoft, as they want to establish their platform against Windows.
      Valve isn't competing against Windows. That whole thing was a ruse.

      Valve doesn't care about Linux or even about producing anything.

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      • #23
        Instead of dumping money on a novelty like VR, they should focus on the Steam Store, SteamOS and creating a new line of Half-Life Games. Just my opinion of course, what do I know...

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        • #24
          Originally posted by johnc View Post

          Valve isn't competing against Windows. That whole thing was a ruse.

          Valve doesn't care about Linux or even about producing anything.
          This is the truth,
          For valve linux is just a safety net, a backup plan in case Microsoft does something too stupid, they released steam for Linux around the time Microsoft released their store for win8/.1, it didn't gain much traction, so valve didn't push more on linux. All valve cares is selling games, not really push for an open platform.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
            nearly all (or maybe all, I'm not sure) software and hardware created by Valve is not open source.
            and all of it is owned by valve, not by nvdida, such little difference
            Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
            Anyway, you absolutely can work on something without sources, though it can complicate things
            i said it complicates, you repeated
            Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
            I don't fully understand how OpenVR works, but I am pretty sure all GPU vendors did not create anything hardware-specific for it. Just like OpenCV, you can get GPU acceleration via OpenCL or CUDA, implying that you can get GPU acceleration without requiring to get through closed-source drivers. Obviously if OpenCV could access the GPU directly and not rely on OpenCL, it may perform better.
            so many words and missed one question: who writes opencl driver? if opencl driver does not work properly for valve, who will fix it?

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            • #26
              Originally posted by debianxfce View Post
              Nvidia Linux driver is as good as the windows driver
              imbecile, nvidia has one windows driver for all oses. and it works worse on linux than on windows, which was pointed to you multiple times

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              • #27
                Originally posted by Lucretia View Post
                The devs are focussing on newer parts and some private individuals are looking more at SI, so the people in the middle with CIK parts are getting royally fucked
                from what planet are you from?

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by Lucretia View Post
                  Exactly, but even if you read the AMD docs, nothing is obvious on how to program their cards.
                  I fully agree on that.

                  Originally posted by Lucretia View Post
                  If they really wanted this, they'd 1) put more money into it, 2) really help with pushing it rather than sitting back and hoping shit'll change.
                  This is basically one point I tried to make. they obviously don't really put effort in all this.

                  Originally posted by Lucretia View Post
                  Again, if they really wanted to,Valve could put actualy money behind the various publishers, this is exactly that M$ and Sony do;

                  MS/Sony: We want your game as an exclusive to shitbox/PS
                  Dev: Ok, it'll cost £x, where 'x' is a large amount.
                  While this is true for some Playstation games, you really can't say that anymore about MS. There are few really great PS games, like Uncharted, where Sony puts a lot of money into. The Xbox doesn't have lots of exclusive games, and most of them are only temporarily exclusive. They also announced, that all future games will be available on the "universal platform" Xbox and Windows 10. But at the moment, even exclusives like Quantum Break get released for older Windows versions (Steam instead of Microsoft Store), too. The funniest thing about QB is that MS is the publisher. Developers have no interest in releasing for Xbox only, and this is not only because it is a shitty platform.

                  Originally posted by Lucretia View Post
                  I do. I want as much open as possible[...]
                  Yes, as I said: me too. But this is not really the problem I have with valve. They'll never open their platform and neither will game devs/publishers open their products.
                  Apart from that, of course I prefer free drivers and free software in general.

                  Originally posted by Lucretia View Post
                  And yest radeonsi is a dead end for modern cards, we should be using amdgpu, but we can't fully, because of lacking patches. More work seems to be happening in radeonsi than amdgpu - er, the future of amd drivers, yet lacking.
                  radeonsi is not radeon, which is what you are talking about here. radeonsi is the OpenGL implementation. The amdgpu stack uses that as well.

                  Originally posted by Lucretia View Post
                  AMD MAKE YOUR SHIT AVAILABLE TO PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT ON UBUNTU AND NEVER WILL BE, FFS!
                  I thought you are into free drivers? There is no problem with the free stack on non-ubuntu systems. The hybrid stack is more or less still beta. Also, you could do it by yourself and get it up and running somewhere else. I really don't blame them for this, there is more important things to do. Maybe there will be packages for other distributions, but tbh I doubt it's worth the effort.
                  AMD moves the OpenCL implementation to ROC. They said it will be open sourced, as well as Vulkan. So the only thing left is the proprietary OpenGL implementation, which I really can't care less about with radeonsi moving to be OGL 4.5 feature complete and improving more.

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by pal666 View Post
                    and all of it is owned by valve, not by nvdida, such little difference
                    Then you see my point?
                    i said it complicates, you repeated
                    You literally said in the same sentence "...by the fact that you can't work on something without sources". That implies the complications wholly prevent development, which is what I disagree with. If I were to repeat you, you would have had to say something along the lines of "...by that fact, it is difficult to work on something without sources".
                    so many words and missed one question: who writes opencl driver? if opencl driver does not work properly for valve, who will fix it?
                    Uh... they all do? Intel's is picky about which platform you use, AMD's isn't feature complete but performs great in some tests, and though Nvidia's is complete, CUDA is [understandably] a better route. And if Valve is willing to pay AMD Mesa devs for OpenVR, why not OpenCL? If OVR were like OCV and depended on OCL, then there would be a lot less work to do.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
                      Then you see my point?
                      yes, i see your point of valve sponsoring work on proprietary nvidia shit, but i don't think valve will do it
                      Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
                      You literally said in the same sentence "...by the fact that you can't work on something without sources". That implies the complications wholly prevent development, which is what I disagree with. If I were to repeat you, you would have had to say something along the lines of "...by that fact, it is difficult to work on something without sources".
                      complications will prevent development if you would not be able to get access to sources via nda or some other means
                      Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
                      if Valve is willing to pay AMD Mesa devs for OpenVR, why not OpenCL?
                      i am getting feeling that i am pointlessly losing time with you, since i have to repeat trivial things several times. how fuck can't you understand sentence from article "help us get the open-source AMD stack OpenVR-ready"? they need driver developers to improve driver

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