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Originally posted by efikkan View PostSpeaking of low latency, I wonder why SteamOS is not using a "low latency" kernel? It should be a no-brainer to get a more fluid experience.
Anyway, those "universal" game engines are too bloated in terms of latency.
Real-time kernels are used by audio systems such as Jack.
And usually, general-purpose game engines aren't too bad with input latency. The problem almost always lies with drivers and hardware.
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Originally posted by Wind0zB3st View PostWayland is even worse than X11, since the forced VSync even in fullscreen applications means everything has at least one additional frame of latency. In their infinite wisdom, the Wayland people also do not intend for anyone to ever be able to turn off VSync, because that would go against their vision.
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IMO, if Valve were really serious about SteamOS they would had created they own Linux/SteamOS from scratch where they would have full control of each single package on it (at least on package repositories), and not made it based (depending) on something - wherever it be. And/Later, make available some kind of contender for other distributions.
Following this way they would make things more easy for game developers, and allow better hardware integration for also for whom sell prebuilt steam machines. People whom eventually are whiling to have SteamOS just for gaming do not care to have bleeding edge version of libraries on the system.
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Originally posted by alexcortes View PostIMO, if Valve were really serious about SteamOS they would had created they own Linux/SteamOS from scratch where they would have full control of each single package on it (at least on package repositories), and not made it based (depending) on something - wherever it be. And/Later, make available some kind of contender for other distributions.
Following this way they would make things more easy for game developers, and allow better hardware integration for also for whom sell prebuilt steam machines. People whom eventually are whiling to have SteamOS just for gaming do not care to have bleeding edge version of libraries on the system.
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Originally posted by efikkan View PostSpeaking of low latency, I wonder why SteamOS is not using a "low latency" kernel? It should be a no-brainer to get a more fluid experience.
Anyway, those "universal" game engines are too bloated in terms of latency.
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Originally posted by Wind0zB3st View Post
Wayland is even worse than X11, since the forced VSync even in fullscreen applications means everything has at least one additional frame of latency.
[0] With changes by yours truly which just landed for 4.9, it can even work if the new buffer is provided only during the vertical blank period, but it depends on the specific timing/driver/hardware and requires the compositor to use new ioctl flags.
In their infinite wisdom, the Wayland people also do not intend for anyone to ever be able to turn off VSync, because that would go against their vision.
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Originally posted by Wind0zB3st View PostBecause the graphics subsystem doesn't use any real-time kernel functionality IIRC, so why you're even bringing this up is beyond me.
Real-time kernels are used by audio systems such as Jack.
Using a low latency kernel will pretty much eliminate "micro stutter", which is small variations in frame rate which usually don't affect the average performance. A typical application rendering will have small fluctuations, e.g. every 2nd to 5th frame or so will be slightly delayed. At 60 Hz small variations of 1-2 ms is very noticable to some people, and the variations can be even larger. Switching to a low latency kernel will reduce such fluctuations down to <0.1 ms, generating a much more fluid stream of frames.
So this doesn't matter much to end-to-end latency, but have a great impact on stutter.
Originally posted by Wind0zB3st View PostAnd usually, general-purpose game engines aren't too bad with input latency. The problem almost always lies with drivers and hardware.
1) Hardware input: mice, keyboards, etc. Range: <1 ms for PS/2, ~30 ms for Bluetooth...
2) OS overhead, scheduling, etc. 0.1 - 10 ms or more
3) Game engine - logic. At 60 Hz 16.7 - 33.3 ms
4) Game engine - rendering. At 60 Hz 16.7 ms (Driver latency and OS latency will have an impact here)
5) Vsync (optional) At 60 Hz 16.7 ms
6) Screen input latency: ~1 - 30 ms
The end-to-end latency of a typical game is ~100 ms, and even more for games played over a network.
I don't know what kind of problems you are thinking about in hardware, except for 1 and 6, everything else is more or less software.
Originally posted by notanoob View PostThe same reason they based their distro off of debain. Because their not in the OS business. They are game makers.
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