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A Call To Move Games Outside Of Linux Desktop Environments, Own Wayland/KMS Setup

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  • mangobrain
    replied
    From a pure performance perspective, he has a point. Arguably this will also improve the portability of games across various different distributions: basically, as interfaces for generating graphic output become more standardised, the need for abstraction layers is lessened. We've come a long way: remember when each manufacturer had their own API, and 3D cards accepted a video signal as input, and composited it with their own additional output? In such times, having mode setting done in the kernel, in a standard way for all hardware, would have been unthinkable.

    This is technically possible, the low-level facilities exist, and provide enough of a lowest common denominator that you can actually get a game up and running... but it will effectively turn the PC into a console whilst the game is running, it won't have any interactions with any other graphical applications on the system. The most obvious casualties being windowed mode and alt+tab.

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  • Sethox
    replied
    Originally posted by ssokolow View Post
    I just responded to that by saying it lost him a lot of credibility and it's bad enough that I can't use older flight sticks with newer Linux games for want of Win95-level calibration support in evdev without sliding further back toward "every DOS game bundles all its own sound drivers and clone hardware pretends to be a soundblaster".
    I don't think this is a blog where he wants to bring PR really, it's a blog post for gods sake. It's to bring an argument/discussion to the table to actually start thinking about something. If this was a solid solution he would be in the table working on it already without saying a word since it is kind of useful technology to have for Linux users. Let's just try to be optimistic and reason if it's possible, I say optimistic because we would REALLY want Linux Gaming to become a thing... right?

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  • DIRT
    replied
    What works with x11 and fx4wm is running the game native res andwindowed. Then telling the window manager to go full screen Alt+f11. I do that with all games, wine, native, and its consistent. All tabbing is instant just like in windowed games on windows.

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  • ssokolow
    replied
    Originally posted by renox View Post

    That's the only part of what your post which wouldn't work with mgraesslin proposal.
    Actually, he just responded to a question about how things like TeamSpeak would work in his vision by saying

    integrate TeamSpeak into games!
    We need to face that games need to grab input, there is no way around it. And on Wayland that will probably mean that a host key needs to be pressed to go back to ungrabbed mode. If we want to have decent integration it needs to be done in the games.
    I just responded to that by saying it lost him a lot of credibility and it's bad enough that I can't use older flight sticks with newer Linux games for want of Win95-level calibration support in evdev without sliding further back toward "every DOS game bundles all its own sound drivers and clone hardware pretends to be a soundblaster".

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  • asdfblah
    replied
    Would this be too much burden on the devs? Would there be a framework for doing this? It's too bad that companies already spent time and resources porting games to linux... Before wayland.
    Anyway, this seems like an awesome idea.

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  • renox
    replied
    Originally posted by giucam View Post
    Fullscreen doesn't mean that window management is irrelevant, at all. I still want notifications on my fullscreen windows,
    That's the only part of what your post which wouldn't work with mgraesslin proposal.

    Originally posted by giucam View Post
    i want my key bindings for volume and screen brightness to keep working as i defined them in the compositor, i want to be able to minimize the window or to change the virtual desktop,
    Well proper game would respect the configuration defined in the environement and allow you to 'get out' of the 'game only mode', otherwise you'd have to reboot the computer to quit the game..

    Originally posted by giucam View Post
    i want to show the game on one screen and, say, my irc client on another one.
    Then this is not a true fullscreen case, it's similar to a windowed mode (the desktop manager must manage the focus) so you cannot get rid of the CPU&memory usage of the desktop manager in this case.


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  • justmy2cents
    replied
    Originally posted by nctd View Post
    How does this compare to the SteamOS system?
    probably not much. i doubt getting games to interact with all low layers directly is a good idea at all. you really want something like steam BPM to create and control that game session, not to mention it could allow easy switch between your desktop and games. not only you get handling of volume, multimedia keys and so on, you'd also get game launcher.

    but, mainly letting game connect directly to lower layers is bad idea because i can imagine all sorts of nightmare scenarios game developers will use in their lack of knowing how.

    otherwise, idea of game session is something i already preached few times, so i don't think it as bad. just this way is a bit too hardcore

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  • unixfan2001
    replied
    Originally posted by nctd View Post
    How does this compare to the SteamOS system?
    SteamOS is still X11 based. It doesn't do anything special. AFAIK, its compositor doesn't even unredirect.

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  • giucam
    replied
    Originally posted by Djhg2000 View Post
    Alt+Tab is already broken in many of the games I've tried with Gnome. Moving them to VTs might be favorable as you rarely have many games running anyway (making multitasking irrelevant), they want the full screen (making window management irrelevant) and want high performance (making fancy desktop features irrelevant).
    Fullscreen doesn't mean that window management is irrelevant, at all. I still want notifications on my fullscreen windows, i want my key bindings for volume and screen brightness to keep working as i defined them in the compositor, i want to be able to minimize the window or to change the virtual desktop, i want to show the game on one screen and, say, my irc client on another one. You could make up many more examples, i think this suggestion would fit only for very restricted use cases.

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  • Djhg2000
    replied
    Alt+Tab is already broken in many of the games I've tried with Gnome. Moving them to VTs might be favorable as you rarely have many games running anyway (making multitasking irrelevant), they want the full screen (making window management irrelevant) and want high performance (making fancy desktop features irrelevant).

    Leave a comment:

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