Garry Newman On The Future Of Their Linux Game Ports

[ruinairas]

He is right... All the hype behind Linux has not materialized and it is true that using linux as a gaming platform sucks really bad. You lose so much in the transition. People feel that developers should support Linux because it is the right thing to do. I understand the reasons for the push to use linux but denying that linux has some problems that needs addressed is not going to help. We cannot expect that things will just work because it will work itself out. The fact that I lose a lot of value in my gaming rig the moment I switch over is proof enough. I cannot even use my shield portable streaming features to list one example.

[tegs]

I haven't bought any of the titles he has made before, but after that comment, I will never touch Garry's Mod or Rust ever. Not even on a $1 Steam Sale or G2A key. He has a pretty shitty attitude considering that the Source engine runs well on Linux (for which he uses for Garry's mod) and Unity support is improving all the time.

Just seems like a cop out on his end. I'm sorry Garry... but go fuck yourself.

[kneekoo]

I can understand that some developers don't see Linux interesting enough as a commercial platform. I can understand the lack of qualified people to support Linux-compatible releases, but they should also understand this is a chicken and egg problem. I mean I already have over 100 titles on each - GOG and Steam - and although I have plenty of titles to choose from when I'm in the mood for gaming, most of the games are not available for Linux.

Updating and maintaining Windows only for gaming is a pain in the ass that someday, not far from now, I will just give up and won't give a shit about. I boot to Windows probably 3 times a year and waste many hours with updates and many reboots in between. Sometimes the updates also screw up something, which sucks. But anyway, my point is most of the time I use Linux and if I don't see a title as Linux-compatible there are very slim chances I will buy it. There's simply no motivation. As little as I use Windows it still gives me headaches. So why bother? Why buy Windows/Mac-only games when I use Linux? So just in case it's not clear by now, I will avoid non-Linux-compatible titles. But then they will say there are not enough customers. OK, but if you choose the easy way and decide not to release... how exactly can you build a customer base? <- chicken and egg.

I understand them but I don't feel they understand us and it makes no sense to buy something I cannot use. It's as simple as that.

[HenryM]

Right now, Investing in Linux as a platform is just that - an investment.


Public perception is a factor. the belief that windows is more user-friendly seems odd to me, since on linux most things just work or are reasonably easy to deal with, but anytime I use windows it is awkward. I personally use Linux for everything, but then I don't do much gaming...

[DIRT]

I'm not saying Garry isn't an asshat, but damn can some of you guys appreciate the linux ports a little bit? I'm happy to run the game native and will accept whatever bugs comes with it. Just as long as the game doesn't segfault on startup from an untested update.

[Dragonlord]

If you work with a crappy engine (aka Unity) you only get crappy results. They way games are currently build there won't be a rise in Linux usage. You can't win people by using half-baked solutions not suitable for the job.

[guyonearth]

I haven't bought any of the titles he has made before, but after that comment, I will never touch Garry's Mod or Rust ever. Not even on a $1 Steam Sale or G2A key. He has a pretty shitty attitude considering that the Source engine runs well on Linux (for which he uses for Garry's mod) and Unity support is improving all the time.

Just seems like a cop out on his end. I'm sorry Garry... but go fuck yourself.

I'm not a game developer, but I'm a little curious how much time you think guys like this who are trying to make a living and move their career along are supposed to spend essentially working for nothing? Linux is a highly fragmented market with many mutually antagonistic factions and products. Trying to put out a game that runs reliably can be a major challenge, given the moving target that Linux is. Couple this with the fact that very, very few Linux users feel they should actually pay for their software, and you have a non-market and little incentive to do anything. I've dabbled with many operating systems since the 90's, and nowhere else do you see the vitriol, posturing, and condescension that you see in the Linux/BSD community. People who like and use Windows don't attack other Windows users. People who like and use MacOS don't attack other Mac users...but Linux users will go for each other's throats at the drop of a hat. It's not an encouraging thing to be part of. The people who produce the various distributions are very much guilty as well, forking things at a moment's notice over trivial technical or philosophical issues. Where's the incentive to develop software and do business in this kind of environment?

[starshipeleven]

I'm not a game developer, but I'm a little curious

Read up "multiplatform game engine". They aren't developing "for windows/linux/osx", they are writing stuff for Source or Unity game engines, that are already multiplatform and made by third parties. Apart from a few details, making a linux version (or a OSX version) is done by pressing a button.

Linux is a highly fragmented market with many mutually antagonistic factions and products.

Yet Steam runs fine on all major linux distros. May not be officially supported and may require minor manual help to get installed, but then everything goes fine.

You wanna know why? Because Steam pulls down the relevant parts of an Ubuntu system along with it, so as long as there is a linux kernel and updated drivers from the distro it is in (these components are the same for all), the games are running inside an Ubuntu system.

People who like and use Windows don't attack other Windows users.

Windows 8-8.1 users vs Windows 7 users, windows XP users Vs windows whatever users, windows 10 early adopters vs all other windows users.
There is plenty of flamewar and attacking in windows users too.

People who like and use MacOS don't attack other Mac users

It's called OSX, and while I'm not a follower of their cult, I'm ready to bet money on the fact that you will find flamewars between Apple stuff users too.

forking things at a moment's notice over trivial technical or philosophical issues.

Feel free to stay on WIndows, where retarded decisions of The Man are pushed down the throat of every user and devs still not get anywhere near a sane and consistent OS to develop for.

On linux you can pull tricks like Steam does, and also most stuff is modular and can be run together.

[guyonearth]

Read up "multiplatform game engine". They aren't developing "for windows/linux/osx", they are writing stuff for Source or Unity game engines, that are already multiplatform and made by third parties. Apart from a few details, making a linux version (or a OSX version) is done by pressing a button.

Yet Steam runs fine on all major linux distros. May not be officially supported and may require minor manual help to get installed, but then everything goes fine.

You wanna know why? Because Steam pulls down the relevant parts of an Ubuntu system along with it, so as long as there is a linux kernel and updated drivers from the distro it is in (these components are the same for all), the games are running inside an Ubuntu system.

Windows 8-8.1 users vs Windows 7 users, windows XP users Vs windows whatever users, windows 10 early adopters vs all other windows users.
There is plenty of flamewar and attacking in windows users too.

It's called OSX, and while I'm not a follower of their cult, I'm ready to bet money on the fact that you will find flamewars between Apple stuff users too.

Feel free to stay on WIndows, where retarded decisions of The Man are pushed down the throat of every user and devs still not get anywhere near a sane and consistent OS to develop for.

On linux you can pull tricks like Steam does, and also most stuff is modular and can be run together.

I think you're being more than a little disingenuous. So you think Windows users are controlled by the "man"? That's kind of old hat, isn't it? FUD, really. Apple is far more controlling of it's users than Microsoft is. And you really think that Windows users sit around fighting over the best version? Hardly. It's only because of Windows' ubiquity that it's even an issue. People like it so much they can't stand to upgrade. You only need to go to any Linux forum (like this one) to see Linux users trash each other and attack some of the best things going for the system, as well as some of the best people, the toxicity is amazing. It's one of the things that's always held the system back as a marketable desktop....that and the incredible fragmentation and inconsistency. It's really irrelevant that Steam runs on any proportion of distros, since the fact is the total number of potential users is tiny compared to Windows or even Mac, not to mention IOS or Android, which is where the real money is. Steam on Linux is too little too late. Linux itself is so game unfriendly as to make it academic. In 25 years Linux has crawled up to 1% or so of the desktop market. For literally decades now we've been hearing ranting about how it's the Windows killer, Windows is doomed, etc., etc....well, 25 years later Windows is still here, still has the most value-added by far, and costs....nothing.

[starshipeleven]

So you think Windows users are controlled by the "man"?

No, I said that people on Windows can either wholly accept MS decisions (referred to as "The Man") or not use (that version of) windows (if they can at all).

Did you read the EULA? That's what it says.

And you really think that Windows users sit around fighting over the best version?

Do you ever venture outside linux-only forums? There were huge flamewars between Windows 8 adopters and windows 7 and XP users over various aspects, the GUI being the biggest.

With windows 10 there are again flamewars.

There are flamewars between people that cling to XP like if it was their father's land even if it's a POS, and others that tell them they are idiots and that should upgrade because it's not safe anymore (if it ever was anyway).

People like it so much they can't stand to upgrade.

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAHAHAHAH

This is total bs.

It's one of the things that's always held the system back as a marketable desktop....that and the incredible fragmentation and inconsistency.

Newsflash, linux desktop was born for this. Giving people the choice of doing whatever the fuck they pleased with their PC.

It is and will ever be a niche product, because that's what it was supposed to be from the start.

The whole linux project is a toolbox to make your own stuff. I mean, is Android compatible with linux desktop even if they use (kinda) the same kernel? Nope.

It's really irrelevant that Steam runs on any proportion of distros, since the fact is the total number of potential users is tiny compared to Windows or even Mac, not to mention IOS or Android, which is where the real money is. Steam on Linux is too little too late.

Steam on linux is a spin-off of the Steam Machines project, which is a project about making a Steam-controlled console-like system (since they can control their own linux distro but not Windows), and it does make sense as a future investment.

Valve isn't run by morons, they knew very well that linux graphics stack was utter crap when they started the project (now it's significantly improved, it's still crap, but "crap" is better than "utter crap"), and that without a mass-market product (Steam Machines) it was a waste of time.

But they are determined to have their backup plan if MS fails to sell its new OS (again), fails to get enough steam into its app store (again), and keeps failing to sell its lines of mobile devices (again).

Because that is what they saw back then in windows 8 days. If MS screws up royally and ends up suiciding like they are currently still doing, Valve wants their own way out of the sinking ship.

They chose Linux, because its graphics stack was MUCH better than whatever BSDs have, and because big companies like Intel see what they see too, and want their way out too, and are at work on improving Linux since long ago (hint: Intel is making large parts of the Linux graphic stack, and also the newer display server protocol, Wayland, that replaces the aging and crappy Xorg).

This is what makes linux progess further, companies that realize that it gives THEM the full control over their stuff, and not third parties.

In 25 years Linux has crawled up to 1% or so of the desktop market.

It's always been elitary. The same can be said of OSX, elitary but in another way.

Ubuntu is the only distro that wants to displace Windows. Others don't care.

For literally decades now we've been hearing ranting about how it's the Windows killer, Windows is doomed, etc., etc....

Those ranting were idiots. Windows itself has always been the Windows killer. Just look at XP, or win7. Or at the "free upgrade from win7-8.1 to win10", which is a NEVER SEEN BEFORE concession.

MS lived off the obsolescence of PCs, now that even a 8 year old pc is perfectly adequate for modern usage, and that many older PCs are replaced by tablets and not by another PC, they don't sell anymore OEM licenses (the ones of preinstalled windows).

Win8 never surpassed WinXP in popularity (for a bunch of good reasons), it was WinXP that eventually got lower and lower until it got less used than Win8. When more people are still using more your 10+ year old software than your new and shiny one, something is very wrong.

And this happens while Win7 is still top dog and there is no indication that it will get anywhere below 50% of total PC marketshare, and all those users aren't paying MS anymore until 2020 or so (when Win7 goes out of support).

Which is funny, one-shot OEM licenses (license linked to the specific PC, so if you change PC you buy a new license too), their greatest idea, is what is currently dooming MS.

If they did listen to their fucking userbase sometimes and made subscription-based licensing for their OS too, they wouldn't need to come up with total crap "new" OS every few years just to try to sell it, but only to improve their only OS over time (and make a good one).

Windows is still here, still has the most value-added by far, and costs....nothing.

OEM licenses (preinstalled windows) aren't free, they add somewhere like 120$ or so on top of the price of what you buy. Look for laptops with freeDOS (a fancy way of saying that they are sold without an OS) and make a comparison with the same model with Windows.

And as I said, I wouldn't count on Windows surviving in its current shape for long.
As it is now, it's locked in the PC market, and the older versions are severely limiting the profits of the new versions, and MS does not have terribly good ideas to get out of the hole, currently.

And Linux has nothing to do with this, it's all about current laws of physics (= slowing down processor performance improvements, so no need to upgrade PC so frequently, even Intel is getting hit by this and has a billion or so of "lost profits" because of this), and lack of understanding that they either change businness model NOW or they manage to be out-competed by their own older products while everyone is laughing at them.