AMD/ATi + Blizzard

[yoshi314]

We had a Linux version early on for compatiability purposes, but have no plans to make the final game for Linux.

that sucks. as usual game gets developed on linux/unix and ported to windows :/ ( i believe most id games were developed on unix and then initially released for windows ). blizzard might be concerned about copy protection issues on linux and the fact that the os is a fluid platform (frequent api changes etc), where windows provides more stable ground.

but if it comes to online gaming most money comes from monthly account fees, not from the actual game sales.

i can think of one huge advantage of linux based game - you can box it together with an operating system :]

think about it - if there was a linux edition of e.g. world of warcraft or warcraft 3 with a linux (e.g ubuntu) install cd in the box, or even blizzard's dedicated distro. wouldn't that be cool?

[RobbieAB]

think about it - if there was a linux edition of e.g. world of warcraft or warcraft 3 with a linux (e.g ubuntu) install cd in the box, or even blizzard's dedicated distro. wouldn't that be cool?

What about the other software many gamers would run in the background? like the Voice Chat?

Admittedly, this could offer major benefits for them in terms of debugging: We provide a LiveCD to run the game for users, if the problem doesn't occur there, it's not our problem...

I don't think that many "casual" gamers would be willing to reboot for a game though, and the hardcore would complain about lack of functionality.

[RobbieAB]

Not according to Vivendi, however Blizzard's own profile would suggest otherwise. Strange.

Companies try to claim rights where they don't have any, publishers well known for this trick. Disney famously lost a case in the UK for that: Peter Pans Toyshop, who they were suing for infringing their IP won expenses after legal representation was made to the court on behalf of the Great Ormonde Street Hospital that payment had been made for use of the said IP, which they owned in perpetuity courtesy of an Act of Parliment.

I would put more trust in Blizzards claim.

[Svartalf]

that sucks. as usual game gets developed on linux/unix and ported to windows :/ ( i believe most id games were developed on unix and then initially released for windows ). blizzard might be concerned about copy protection issues on linux and the fact that the os is a fluid platform (frequent api changes etc), where windows provides more stable ground.

The protection issues are a valid concern. With an apparent three or four to one ratio of infringed to legitimate copies in the wild of many of LGP's titles fuels that fire.

The API changes, etc. are not a concern, but more of a perception- honest.

The Windows world isn't any less stable (With deltas in DirectX each time you turn around, requiring almost always a complete re-write if you want to use the new one... Deltas between behaviors in 98, Me, 2000, XP, Vista... It's not that we change all that much (Honestly, if done right, your binaries can still run nearly 6-10 years from now as long as the ABI below you doesn't break. The same can't be said as much for Windows titles... )- it's that they're FAMILIAR with the Windows world. It is a known. Linux is not.

[Malikith]

I don't think that many "casual" gamers would be willing to reboot for a game though, and the hardcore would complain about lack of functionality.

Well, most casual gamers are console gamers and when they want to play a different game, they technically have to "reboot" too hehe. But yeah, the technical crowd might complain, might not though either, if there are other options that is.

[Malikith]

The protection issues are a valid concern. With an apparent three or four to one ratio of infringed to legitimate copies in the wild of many of LGP's titles fuels that fire.

The API changes, etc. are not a concern, but more of a perception- honest.

The Windows world isn't any less stable (With deltas in DirectX each time you turn around, requiring almost always a complete re-write if you want to use the new one... Deltas between behaviors in 98, Me, 2000, XP, Vista... It's not that we change all that much (Honestly, if done right, your binaries can still run nearly 6-10 years from now as long as the ABI below you doesn't break. The same can't be said as much for Windows titles... )- it's that they're FAMILIAR with the Windows world. It is a known. Linux is not.

Yeah alot of these game companies are like children who are afraid of the dark. Or a better way of saying it, vampires who are afraid of the light haha. I understand they want to protect their investments and everything, and with how crucial things are at the moment. The point that needs to get across to Linux users pirating LGP games is that if you don't want to buy it, thats fine but don't pirate it because that makes everyone including LGP look like a bunch of thieves which is not true at all. Game companies want reasons so they don't have to port to Linux, and the more reasons they have, the more they'll resist. We gotta take away these reasons, even if they're not valid in realistic terms but they are valid in their business terms.

[me262]

that sucks. as usual game gets developed on linux/unix and ported to windows :/ ( i believe most id games were developed on unix and then initially released for windows ). blizzard might be concerned about copy protection issues on linux and the fact that the os is a fluid platform (frequent api changes etc), where windows provides more stable ground.

Granted there are a few things that emerge for backward compatibility's sake. Take libstdc++-3.3 for instance. Backward compatibility for programs built with GCC 3.3. Don't know any programs that use it, but I'm sure they're closed source, and binary-only.

think about it - if there was a linux edition of e.g. world of warcraft or warcraft 3 with a linux (e.g ubuntu) install cd in the box, or even blizzard's dedicated distro. wouldn't that be cool?

Double-edged sword here.
Pros:
- Static programs make supporting debugging easier (no messing with multiple versions.
- LiveCD - Be able to boot to the CD directly, making it very lightweight, very efficient. No WindowManager or Desktop system to get in the way. xstart --display :0 /usr/bin/War3
Cons:
- LiveCD UPDATES! Unless you want to press 100,000+ CD's everytime you update your program, the only other option is a UDF DVD-R (or RW), or release an ISO online... (This may work if the distro doesn't come with any programs)
- You still have to be able to support a multitude of hardware, meaning they have to tinker with the kernel / modules / dependencies everytime someone reports a problem.
- You're also at the mercy of what equipment works. "Why don't I have wireless access?" "Do you have a card with a (chipset that doesn't work *AHEM* TI *AHEM!*) chipset?" "Yeah!" "Sorry, you're screwed."

For the record though, BlizzardOS running IceWM does have a ring to it...

[me262]

Or a better way of saying it, vampires who are afraid of the light haha.

Oooh. I like that one...

I understand they want to protect their investments and everything, and with how crucial things are at the moment. The point that needs to get across to Linux users pirating LGP games is that if you don't want to buy it, thats fine but don't pirate it because that makes everyone including LGP look like a bunch of thieves which is not true at all. Game companies want reasons so they don't have to port to Linux, and the more reasons they have, the more they'll resist. We gotta take away these reasons, even if they're not valid in realistic terms but they are valid in their business terms.

Shall we start porting Starforce 4 anyone?
The reason there's so much piracy, is that no protection software existed for it, short of LGP's new online system.
(To my knowledge...)

A few other alternatives I can think of
- A "shareware" version of the game: This can access only a few single levels, crippled multi and online play (can't leave people COMPLETELY out of having a party with friends...) once someone purchases a key, integrate it into the program file or in an encrypted archive, and validate it when multiplayer and online functions are used.
- Some checking mechanism in the kernel that will see the medium for what it is, a CD-R, DVD-R, or loopmount (regardless of the book-type).
- Outside sector hashing: I remember reading that some of these commercial programs can put a crippled copy in the real spot, and the correct program in an outside section. Dummy program hashes and signature checks the correct program, once validated, runs.

Have I given LGP any ways of implementation yet?

[Extreme Coder]

I'm not sure why Blizzard should be afraid of porting WoW for example. I mean, how the hell do you pirate a paid-for MMORPG?

[me262]

The fact that there's 3rd party server software circling is kind of a sticking point. I tried it at one point. Buggy scripting...
Naturally this 3rd party software, I'm thinking it's for professional clans and the like...

But the fact that it is a pay-for-play does make sense. There's no CD needed at all after it's installed.