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  • Originally posted by RobbieAB View Post
    The big blocker to most games is not the technical side of the port, but getting access to the IP to do it...
    Oh, by the way folks, repeat that one over and over.

    DX10 doesn't even present a bar, per se, to making a game- it's getting the rights access to port the game over and the rights access to publish said version.

    Many of these titles are "doable" if you are willing to go in the hole tens of thousands of dollars, sometimes hundreds of thousands. I strongly suspect if you waved a quarter of a million under several differing studios' noses you could get a Linux version- perhaps even have them take a go at it themselves in some cases. If you use past performance, which while it's not a final gauge of future performance, as a good rough litmus test of things, you will be out something on the order of the quarter of a million and you'll make back your mastering budget- IF you don't advertise. If you advertise, you'll be out 300k or more on the deal.

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    • If you advertise?

      This is one thing you haven't explained to us Svartalf. How does advertising a game reflect on your budget, and do you know of the return?

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      • I would guess promotion expenses are very, very high. From publicity campaigns to the whole process involved in promoting (advertising) any given product. Supposedly (for the Music Industry, which the game industry is modeled after) promotion expenses can sum up to 70% of the total cost of a printed record (per unit, of course). If it is roughly the same for games... I'd imagine advertisement and promotion expenses are just a bit less for your regular AAA titles, and who knows if even more for those AAA+ titles (Halo 3, anyone? I'd fear (pun intended) just to guess how much it was for the whole promotion campaign of this title... I'd venture to insinuate that it might have been even more than the game itself). So yeah, advertisement CAN be expensive (just because it CAN be, doesn't mean it has to be, BUT good and aggressive advertisement is believed to directly reflect on sold copies).

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        • Isn't there like in any other business, ways to advertise, without breaking the bank?

          Since Linux games is a... niche segment, you can essentially get a few sites/magazines that will do advertising, through reviews or cross-link agreements? Right?

          I know this won't even have the reach of 5% of traditional advertising, but you want to target your niche market, right? maybe just outside the niche market.

          hmmm, Is it possible to have all the advertising under some, umbrella agreement? Choose 20 or so best quality games from different publishers, and create a "Games for Linux" initiative, and advertise this to the regular sources? You could cut the costs of advertising quite considerably if it is a shared initiative... possibly.

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          • Originally posted by grigi View Post
            If you advertise?

            This is one thing you haven't explained to us Svartalf. How does advertising a game reflect on your budget, and do you know of the return?
            For a basic title that gets real print and elsewhere advertising, you can expect 50k or more spent on that aspect alone. Something like Rage will expend a quarter to a half million at minimum. But, with something like Rage or UT3, they expect to sell at least 100k units or more so they can afford to spend that on it because it's at least likely to sell that many.

            [edit]
            In reality, though, MOST of the game and other titles don't HAVE advertising. They have shelf space at Wal-Mart, Target, Fry's, etc. People don't buy computer software and console titles off of the advertising, save the hardcore crowd. Most of the console advertising is in about 3-4 magazines, each one more geared to a specific console. There's a couple of generic ones (I'm subscribed to one of them with my GameStop membership...)- but the adverts tend to be more for console titles than PC titles even though they review all of them. And, what DOES get advertising space, they spent BIG bucks on the ads.

            Most consumers don't subscribe to PC Week, CPU, etc. They just go into a store, look at a box or look for the title that the kids found out about either by seeing it or by word of mouth and buy. Serious. That's where the bulk of the sales come from. Advertising can help increase awareness of the title in question, but it doesn't magically increase those sales.
            [/edit]

            Advertising works if you've got a market segment that will buy at least ten thousand or more units- but depending on what you spend, you may crib your profits or post a loss on the title if you only sell that many and you spent the Rage like budget on it.

            Each and every aspect of the business that people think will sell stuff is predicated on unit counts MUCH higher than we've been bothered to buy for as a community. Seriously. And you have to have them 'there' in many of the cases before you'll get your shot at it, like in the case of retailers.

            For example, unless you have the Linux version in the same SKU as either the Windows or MacOS boxes, a retailer will not give you the time of day unless you're expecting to sell 10k units or more of a broad range of titles. If you're a sole title, you probably won't get shelf space unless you expect to sell the Windows volume of something like UT3 or Rage- because it will cost them space for things that WILL likely sell throughout their market if it won't sell that many.
            Last edited by Svartalf; 19 August 2008, 10:02 AM. Reason: Ammended to reflect what is the reality of the story...

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            • Originally posted by grigi View Post
              Isn't there like in any other business, ways to advertise, without breaking the bank?

              Since Linux games is a... niche segment, you can essentially get a few sites/magazines that will do advertising, through reviews or cross-link agreements? Right?
              Okay, you've lowered the budget a bit doing it- but without the critical mass (which is ALMOST there- but ALMOST only counts in horseshoes, hand-grenades, and atomic bombs...) you're just spending money to little effect.

              I know this won't even have the reach of 5% of traditional advertising, but you want to target your niche market, right? maybe just outside the niche market.
              The problem is, the niche already knows about the products via outlets like this and at least reviews in magazines like Linux Format (I know, I've kept the issue with the review of Ballistics...). The niche market in question, according to others, "can't get access to it" or "it's too expensive" so they pirate it. Roughly five people to one in that manner depending on the title in question. Do YOU think it's going to be any better without something to get them to QUIT doing that sort of thing?

              Can't help with the prices because the studios and publishers charge ridiculous royalties just to get the privilege to get a crack at it in many cases. That money has to be made up somehow. Either you see 10k units actually mostly sell or you deal with 3-5k unit production runs with the price being higher. If anyone in the space honestly thought they'd sell 10k units the prices would more closely match the Windows ones and we might even see a bit of actual advertising. Unfortunately, that's not even close to the situation here. Lots of promises to move over or to buy Linux only software, only to have those promises be empty.

              Can't help too much with the access, because it requires that you have enough volume of sales to make it worthwhile to sell it meatspace. Here's a hint: If you're selling only 2k units worldwide at best, you're not going to GET that access except in maybe mom-and-pop stores or stores that're exclusively Linux.

              hmmm, Is it possible to have all the advertising under some, umbrella agreement? Choose 20 or so best quality games from different publishers, and create a "Games for Linux" initiative, and advertise this to the regular sources? You could cut the costs of advertising quite considerably if it is a shared initiative... possibly.
              Heh... I don't know if that'd work- it's worth a try I suppose. I fear that "Games for Windows" only semi-works in it's case because we're talking about that effective monopoly up in Redmond.
              Last edited by Svartalf; 19 August 2008, 10:16 AM.

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              • I did some quick reading up on the Internet, and it seems that there is lots of "games for Linux" initiatives, they are all of... not quite marketable quality. Some are geared to only "Free" games.

                Another thing I noticed is that they throw hundreds of games together, and I actually don't know what to go for. It is easier going to, say tuxgames to see what commercial games is available. They also ship. (Although living in deep dark Africa, means that shipping ends up costing a fair bit if you only order 1 or 2 titles, beside the point)

                The issue that games are available for Linux, and that the niche markets should know about it, well not quite true. A colleague of mine is very much into eve online and linux. He played it under wine, where he would complain that it crashes and is very unstable. I pointed out to him that eve HAS a native client. he didn't even know.

                Furthermore, I only found the link to tuxgames via this forum. Going to the regular linux-related portals this information is not in your face. You need to look for it.


                I still like the "Quality Games for Linux" initiative. Although you would probably need a fair bit of cash upfront to market it the traditional way. Silly that you have to buy shelf space in the US.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by grigi View Post
                  I did some quick reading up on the Internet, and it seems that there is lots of "games for Linux" initiatives, they are all of... not quite marketable quality. Some are geared to only "Free" games.

                  Another thing I noticed is that they throw hundreds of games together, and I actually don't know what to go for. It is easier going to, say tuxgames to see what commercial games is available. They also ship. (Although living in deep dark Africa, means that shipping ends up costing a fair bit if you only order 1 or 2 titles, beside the point)

                  The issue that games are available for Linux, and that the niche markets should know about it, well not quite true. A colleague of mine is very much into eve online and linux. He played it under wine, where he would complain that it crashes and is very unstable. I pointed out to him that eve HAS a native client. he didn't even know.

                  Furthermore, I only found the link to tuxgames via this forum. Going to the regular linux-related portals this information is not in your face. You need to look for it.
                  The largest problem is that in order to get what little advertising you'd need to get things going, you're still looking at $50k or more just for ONE pass at it. Advertising isn't cheap. Though, it does sound like there might be a good play there for the community as a whole to accomplish a few things like that- much like Helios has accomplished mostly through his efforts. Like I said, if we could pull it together it might help things- just don't expect to have the same impact, right at the moment, that even "Games for Windows" has.


                  I still like the "Quality Games for Linux" initiative. Although you would probably need a fair bit of cash upfront to market it the traditional way. Silly that you have to buy shelf space in the US.
                  It IS silly, isn't it? Thing is, you've got to buy it or have enough volume to justify your presence on the shelf. The justify part is applicable pretty much worldwide though.

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                  • Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                    just don't expect to have the same impact, right at the moment, that even "Games for Windows" has.
                    Hehe, I would hope not. Whenever I read "Games for Windows" I think "Games for Vista" and I put it back on the shelf

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                    • Not really... Good games tend to be NOT for Vista ( or with a "at your own risk, we take no responsibility" tag huge all over it )

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