5 Months And Still No UT3 For Linux

[me262]

Unfortunately there's this gene in many forum users DNA that causes them to think there's an obnoxiousness threshold they need to cross in order to be heard. I regularly read all the forums covering UT and if you're being obnoxious, you're going to be treated like an obnoxious person (i.e. ignored).

... or locked and/or deleted. ^_^
I think it stems from the fact that people want to be heard, which means some kind of acknowledgment that yes, their voice has been heard, here's a genuinely-written reply from us.
Back in my IRC days I used to ignore people, but after a while it did bring a headache of wondering where the conversation was going.
I'm appreciative of the fact that you're at least in *here* talking to us WT, it shows more credibility because it's outside of the company forums.
Maybe we could get just a percentage of completion?

I agree that if a delay like this was on a more major platform, Epic would be nailed to a crucifix, yet people would still buy it when it came out. (Case in point: Super Smash Bros. Brawl, 1 month delayed to bring a better experience. I was going nuts 3 weeks before release.) It's the same case as Blizzard, "it'll be out when we're done with it", however Blizzard has a history of doing this, and in the end they do have release dates, and beta tests (now that I think of it, why hasn't Epic done a Linux beta?).
This also makes me wonder how major this problem might be if they don't have a date set, but the opposite side of that is that they're more focused on the major audience and working on the Linux client on their downtime. There are a lot of theories, but no real solid answers because of how Epic's PR has been handled.
If not a percentage of completion, how about the pace? Meager... Taxing... Grueling... some other Oregon Trail reference...

By the way, has any thought been given to how the Linux version will be packaged? On the DVD with the Windows SKU, on a seperate Linux version SKU, or just released online?

[Svartalf]

I wouldn't put too much faith in that release date. I remember many release dates on Duke Nukem Forever on Amazon.

Heh... I **DID** say it was a WAG... >:-)

I don't put much faith in it either.

[Svartalf]

EDIT: Nearly forgot. What exactly is this "OpenAL drama"? Could not get a couple of minutes into the game before it crashed. Some forum mentioned then disabling OpenAL HW to avoid the crashes. I'm working with OpenAL too and I'm surprised how you can manage to crash a game with it. With OpenGL I can understand since I shot down my machine a couple of times with things like binding invalid VBO memory or other things happening if your coffee runs low on ammo late at night. After all OpenAL is just a wrapper around the sound system and sound cards are not yet as sophisticated as graphic cards are.

It's probably because the SI, which most people are using, isn't very good code these days. If you're on Windows, it should work decently enough. If you're working on Linux, it's got all kinds of bad things going on inside it- try to use OpenAL-Soft instead.

[Svartalf]

You've got the developer's ear. Now just make sure you're saying something you want us to hear .

Continue listening in, ignoring the idiots like you're doing right now, for starters.

Get us UT3- we've waited entirely too long as it is. (But that's a given...right? )

The delay here was not a good thing. Honest. Seriously. Moreover, I have to wonder what precisely was the source delay in this. If you've done the Unreal 3 engine line you've done the previous ones, it shouldn't have taken 9+ months to get an 11th hour snag fixed for the Linux or MacOS versions- it should have been at the same time as the Windows version or only a couple of months afterwards. Moreover, you got the PS3 version out, which is closer to the other two platforms than the Windows side of things. What happened?

[Dragonlord]

It's probably because the SI, which most people are using, isn't very good code these days. If you're on Windows, it should work decently enough. If you're working on Linux, it's got all kinds of bad things going on inside it- try to use OpenAL-Soft instead.

In fact this problems exist on the Windows side of life so this is why I put forth the question. Windows support of OpenAL is better so I expect there less troubles than under Linux ( like for example clicks in streamed openal sound buffers ).

[Svartalf]

In fact this problems exist on the Windows side of life so this is why I put forth the question. Windows support of OpenAL is better so I expect there less troubles than under Linux ( like for example clicks in streamed openal sound buffers ).

Heh... That's because the Windows side of things has numerous differing versions of the DLL and no good clean-up, etc. for what's there. There's a "tool" out there that cleans up a goodly portion of the issues by clearing out all the OpenAL junk on the system and then re-installing the latest version in the main search path.

Seems that there's this mis-mash of old and new versions of the .DLL lurking about causing no end to problems, amongst other things. The clicking sound could be caused by a number of differing things, though.

[Dragonlord]

The first time I witnessed this had been with the Quake4 demo on Linux. I first though John had a bad day porting it since there you really had to mute your speakers as this stuttering cause anything from nervous twitching to bleeding ears but then I found the same troubles while writing the audio core in my engine. Talking with the devers on the OpenAL IRC channel showed that this indeed is a known issue... but without a remedy. It's some time ago but I think to remember something about troubles with the underlaying ALSA system. Whatever I could reduce the clicking to nearly inaudible by doing some tricks. Can't remember them out of the head but it's marked somewhere in the sources.

What goes for the Windows problem... that's strange since I installed the OpenAL myself without any other tool intervening. That said I did not check the directory ( it's gone so I can't look it up right now ) of the U3 installation if there is an openal dll included. This could explain some problems.

[D0pamine]

Well, you, deanjo, and a few others have been pretty mouthy about things- and not in a very good way about it, really.

I'm not going to tell you NOT to gripe- I've been doing my fair share of it. All mostly guarded remarks. Partly because I'm not one to be throwing stones over delayed releases (heh...) and because I know I'm not at all entitled to ANYTHING.

Hum sorry , kid brothers fault for believing their FAQ thread , never mind - it shall burn well and i'll treat my brother to a days go-karting to say sorry. If i appear to have been "mouthy" - which is an impossibility even with UTF-8 then i apologise to whom ever i have offended , but neither will i "kiss arse" - which is also impossible even with UTF-8. There is no getting round the fact that they said and still say there will be a linux client and yet there isn't one - just a time frame - weeks? months? years? at all? WarTourist?

But, you and the others in question have been acting like you're entitled to the thing. Some of them actually think that since they made public statements that there would be a Linux version that buying the WINDOWS version entitled them to something for Linux. There ARE consequences for this sort of crap- you might want to go back through the gripe threads and look at what I posted versus what many of the others posted.

This, in and of itself, is part of the reason we don't see more stuff- they look at this and see what crap Bioware got, what crap Epic is getting right now, and then come up with other reasons to not do it, if only to not have to deal with all of the quarrelous people we seem to have in the segment that comprises what they see of Linux users.

Dont promise what you cant/wont deliver ? If i were looking at this situation as another game development company thats what i'd be thinking.

WE do not amount to a pimple on their profits right at the moment, though if there's enough traction in the game space, there'll be vastly more money out of Linux users. Just NOT right now. With that in mind, would YOU expend any effort for what will actually COST them some money overall on UT3 instead of net them a meager profit? Especially with all this crap we've been heaping on Epic and him? I know I wouldn't.

There is a DAMN sight more profit in linux titles these days - when ut99 came out i played it on slackware - it was profitable then but its not profitable now? with 8-9 million ubuntu users alone? It has already been stated by mr. gordon that epic have never lost money making a linux client so why would they lose money now ?

As to when we might see this... I'm guessing with him showing up again that we're looking at a couple of more weeks to a couple of more months- it may be that they're "done" and waiting for "the appropriate time" which would be on THEIR schedule, not yours or mine. And, it could be a solid year from when the Windows version. The Mac version showing up as being released in a couple of days in some online venues leads me to think maybe sooner than later- but that's just a WAG on my part.

yup - ut3 for linux the best guessing game since guess who.....

[Svartalf]

There is a DAMN sight more profit in linux titles these days - when ut99 came out i played it on slackware - it was profitable then but its not profitable now? with 8-9 million ubuntu users alone? It has already been stated by mr. gordon that epic have never lost money making a linux client so why would they lose money now ?

Of those 8-9 million, how many are going to buy UT3?

If you're not talking more than five thousand or so, you need to QUIT going about thinking you're something special. We've had roughly that many or more Linux users for the last 7 or so years- it's just now that we've got better metrics and insight into the real numbers.

Why, then, did Q3:A sell only 200 units MAX? It's not because it sucked. It's not because it was "old". Hell, it was even an OFFICIAL version provided by iD FOR Linux with a LINUX SKU. Why did it not sell, D0pamine, when it should have flown off the shelf like everyone and his DOG keeps saying they'd do if a commercial title becomes available for Linux? If you can't answer that, perhaps you should temper your remarks and back off a bit on quoting figures on things.

Each studio goes and looks at what happened there and remembers the same remarks YOU make right now and then ignores you and the rest of us because it's just the same old, tired crap from that lunatic fringe that insists on using a server OS to play games on. Until you find a way to undo that impression of things, you're going to largely get NOWHERE. Doing things the way you are isn't undoing the impression, it's just reinforcing it.

[grantek]

Why, then, did Q3:A sell only 200 units MAX? It's not because it sucked. It's not because it was "old". Hell, it was even an OFFICIAL version provided by iD FOR Linux with a LINUX SKU. Why did it not sell, D0pamine, when it should have flown off the shelf like everyone and his DOG keeps saying they'd do if a commercial title becomes available for Linux? If you can't answer that, perhaps you should temper your remarks and back off a bit on quoting figures on things.

Did Q3:A phone home to check the CD-key? Either way, it had an iD metaserver, so if anyone has solid figures on who dual-boots and who just buys the Windows-branded version even if it never touches Windows, it's iD.