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  • eidolon
    replied
    It will be interesting to see how many video game digital distribution services the Linux marketplace will bear. If http://www.gamasutra.com/view/featur...e_numbers_.php is any indication, Desura might be feeling the squeeze already.

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  • justmy2cents
    replied
    Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
    I'm not saying I fully agree with him, I'm just explaining his point of view. Apple products break with older version of Apple products because they want you to buy the latest and greatest. But get a x86 game for Mac and it will most likely run on most versions within the past 10 years, assuming the drivers can handle it. There are still plenty of new releases of software out there that work with Windows XP. A system update may break but in my experience, a fresh install of Windows or Mac runs applications (new and old) just fine. With linux, sometimes it takes a little more work to install a 3rd party application.
    i did my share of support on all 3 oses, lots more than i wish i would. and there is no harder thing than something not working and you being able to look at the guts of reason

    Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
    I disagree. Sure, it MAY suggest the developers don't know the platform that well. It may also suggest they're lazy. But With Linux being a 2nd class OS (to the consumerist corporate world), companies don't feel like spending the time and money making sure every stupid little distro and sub-distro gets supported. If I owned a software company there is no way in hell I'd tell my developers to support distros like Mageia, Arch, Puppy, and so on. I have nothing against those distros (I use Arch myself) but it is incredibly unrealistic to attempt to conform to the slight tweaks each distro tries to make. A solid example of this is Steam often breaks for me because it's looking for a different version of libstdc++. I don't expect Valve to do anything for me because if they tried to get every little version of libstdc++ to work with every distro, things would never get done and they don't have enough employees to make sure everyone is properly taken care of.
    MAY suggest or lazy? in the end of the day, in both cases their support will be NULL. you don't dedicate your work on something you have doubts on. if anyone does, then he is just begging for end of the world to come

    Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
    Wrong - phoronix has proven several times the DE does have an impact on gaming performance. But the more important factor about DEs is supporting customers. If you have a problem with your software, the company has to know how to help you. Every DE (by default) has a pretty drastically different way of accomplishing the same thing. Even the most simple thing like running an application requires a different series of mouse movements and clicks. And this is just with the default arrangements - it doesn't include any tweaks the user may make. In the REAL world where people can sue you over the dumbest things, being explicit about your description is important. It becomes such a PITA when you have to compensate for everyone's tastes. Windows and Mac are ideal for commercial use because in terms of support, they don't ever change and they're pretty locked-down. Windows 8 barely counts, because the start screen still serves the same purposes as the classic start menu - it just offers a few more things in a different layout.

    You need to look at this in the perspective of a company.
    i do have that perspective thanks. i do own a company and i work on commercial cross platform software for 15 years now. and all that matters is if you started project with halfa$$ed planning or you actually put a little thinking in it. 99% of everything bases on your initial choice and dedication to make one. trouble being that almost always people prioritize wrong aspects like how to do it faster instead of which will be easier to support

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  • schmidtbag
    replied
    Originally posted by justmy2cents View Post
    lol, you two seem to be living on the same planet. in my world system updates break, there are multiple driver versions which never get updated since people are scared of something breaking. next OSX version breaks old one, etc
    I'm not saying I fully agree with him, I'm just explaining his point of view. Apple products break with older version of Apple products because they want you to buy the latest and greatest. But get a x86 game for Mac and it will most likely run on most versions within the past 10 years, assuming the drivers can handle it. There are still plenty of new releases of software out there that work with Windows XP. A system update may break but in my experience, a fresh install of Windows or Mac runs applications (new and old) just fine. With linux, sometimes it takes a little more work to install a 3rd party application.
    as soon as you see "we only support ubuntu", that should be a clue about how much developer actually knows about platform. i run scared from those developers. i was downright horrified when i saw this from development tool and simply deleted all my work with it. no point, because software was closed and developers incapable of supporting my needs. if i would run into a problem with some distro later, that would put me in unfixable situation. better to move on something else while there is little need to be saved
    I disagree. Sure, it MAY suggest the developers don't know the platform that well. It may also suggest they're lazy. But With Linux being a 2nd class OS (to the consumerist corporate world), companies don't feel like spending the time and money making sure every stupid little distro and sub-distro gets supported. If I owned a software company there is no way in hell I'd tell my developers to support distros like Mageia, Arch, Puppy, and so on. I have nothing against those distros (I use Arch myself) but it is incredibly unrealistic to attempt to conform to the slight tweaks each distro tries to make. A solid example of this is Steam often breaks for me because it's looking for a different version of libstdc++. I don't expect Valve to do anything for me because if they tried to get every little version of libstdc++ to work with every distro, things would never get done and they don't have enough employees to make sure everyone is properly taken care of.
    environments don't really matter to the game unless you use some random WM that doesn't respect any rule. but, that is users fault
    Wrong - phoronix has proven several times the DE does have an impact on gaming performance. But the more important factor about DEs is supporting customers. If you have a problem with your software, the company has to know how to help you. Every DE (by default) has a pretty drastically different way of accomplishing the same thing. Even the most simple thing like running an application requires a different series of mouse movements and clicks. And this is just with the default arrangements - it doesn't include any tweaks the user may make. In the REAL world where people can sue you over the dumbest things, being explicit about your description is important. It becomes such a PITA when you have to compensate for everyone's tastes. Windows and Mac are ideal for commercial use because in terms of support, they don't ever change and they're pretty locked-down. Windows 8 barely counts, because the start screen still serves the same purposes as the classic start menu - it just offers a few more things in a different layout.


    You need to look at this in the perspective of a company.

    Leave a comment:


  • justmy2cents
    replied
    Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
    I think what ssokolow is getting at is with Windows and Mac, everything is relatively consistent. Something compatible with 32 bit Vista basic will likely be compatible with every other version of Windows after that. Something compatible with OSX 10.5 will likely work on OSX 10.10. There's only one set of official drivers, there's only one user-interface, the source is locked down, and applications tend to come with everything they need (such as C++ redistributable packs and other libraries). Very often the things that break functionality the most in Windows are outdated drivers and over-protective firewalls.
    lol, you two seem to be living on the same planet. in my world system updates break, there are multiple driver versions which never get updated since people are scared of something breaking. next OSX version breaks old one, etc

    Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
    In linux it isn't that simple. Sometimes the only thing that makes one linux setup similar to another is the version of the kernel you're using, which isn't saying much. This is why companies that create closed-source software tend to say "we only support ubuntu. go ahead and use it on something else but if it breaks don't come crying to us".
    as soon as you see "we only support ubuntu", that should be a clue about how much developer actually knows about platform. i run scared from those developers. i was downright horrified when i saw this from development tool and simply deleted all my work with it. no point, because software was closed and developers incapable of supporting my needs. if i would run into a problem with some distro later, that would put me in unfixable situation. better to move on something else while there is little need to be saved

    now, if we would be talking about some software that would integrate all your documents, software, DE... it might be true. but, did you ever looked how little dependencies games have? by wrapping them, GOG actually creates them dependency hell since they wrap (even when it wouldn't be needed) 100x more than actual dependencies would be. creating something like steam-runtime where you sandbox your game is trivial at best. it's more or less "you know how or don't"

    one could say GOG couldn't pull resources as much as Valve. although that is not true. just opposite, GOG has fans at exactly the right spot. if they ever approached with "we want to support you, but don't know how, so... help us support you" and then laid their list of the problems reality might be just different and some GOG based distro would be leading the way instead of SteamOS (it would be my preferred reality)

    another view point, the way GOG distributes software is perfect match for current "one file per app that works everywhere sandboxing". project is aimed into exact GOG needed direction. with that, anyone will be able to create better wine wrapper. they could easily join that project and not reinvent the wheel

    Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
    When the video drivers catch up I have a feeling gaming on linux will be much more appealing to other developers. The various desktop environments sure aren't helping much but they don't stand entirely in the way of getting AAA titles.
    environments don't really matter to the game unless you use some random WM that doesn't respect any rule. but, that is users fault

    again... i don't hate GOG, nor what they stand for. i'm just a firm believer in saying "walk the walk and talk the talk"

    Leave a comment:


  • Sonadow
    replied
    Aww...KOF XIII is Windows only...and I don't have a dual-boot.

    Guess I'll just save up some cash for the PS3 version and use Remote Play to play it on my Vita.

    Leave a comment:


  • schmidtbag
    replied
    I think what ssokolow is getting at is with Windows and Mac, everything is relatively consistent. Something compatible with 32 bit Vista basic will likely be compatible with every other version of Windows after that. Something compatible with OSX 10.5 will likely work on OSX 10.10. There's only one set of official drivers, there's only one user-interface, the source is locked down, and applications tend to come with everything they need (such as C++ redistributable packs and other libraries). Very often the things that break functionality the most in Windows are outdated drivers and over-protective firewalls.

    In linux it isn't that simple. Sometimes the only thing that makes one linux setup similar to another is the version of the kernel you're using, which isn't saying much. This is why companies that create closed-source software tend to say "we only support ubuntu. go ahead and use it on something else but if it breaks don't come crying to us".

    When the video drivers catch up I have a feeling gaming on linux will be much more appealing to other developers. The various desktop environments sure aren't helping much but they don't stand entirely in the way of getting AAA titles.
    Last edited by schmidtbag; 08-20-2014, 09:29 AM.

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  • justmy2cents
    replied
    Originally posted by ssokolow View Post
    It has nothing to do with Linux being a "DRM-free platform". It's that, because they handle support themselves and offer a 30-day money-back guarantee if they can't get the game working for you on a supported platform, they were scared off by the profusion of Linux distros for a long time.

    If Linux were a "one version for everyone" thing like Windows and MacOS, they'd have supported it much sooner.
    1st off... it is about "DRM-free platform". What is the point of anti-DRM if you need to get DRM platform to use it. It's like you'd be giving out 100% proof breathing mask, where only thing you need to do to get it is running 2 days over infected area without protection or putting condom on after you had sex

    next... OSX is "one version"? and so is Windows? on which planet do you live? surely not on the same as the rest of us, those two suffer exact same fragmentation where in next version things stop working. and even if your "one version for everyone" would hold any water, then why not FreeBSD or any other BSD? you couldn't get more fitting target for that claim

    next... they were scared? i'm guessing GOG was so scared that they didn't even try it, because out there... Valve succeeded, all games on HB succeeded... they didn't preach "Holier than thou", they simply did it

    now.. just so i put this in perspective, I'm not even as closely as opposed to GOG as it sounds. i just can't stand true believers zealoting and putting down Valve on providing optional DRM for developers. if GOG puts out decent native game at fair price, i'd probably buy it because i prefer to support EU companies. the only thing i want is having option to maintain my library from 1 software.

    Leave a comment:


  • clementl
    replied
    Originally posted by ssokolow View Post
    If Linux were a "one version for everyone" thing like Windows and MacOS, they'd have supported it much sooner.
    Doubt it. If you look around in the Steam store it's evident that most developers focus on Ubuntu support. By using the Steam runtime libraries their game with most surely work on any Linux distro, but they focus official support to Ubuntu and/or SteamOS.

    I think the sole reason why Linux support is often an afterthough is (obivously) the market share. GamingOnLinux recently published some Linux sale figures, and they weren't all that great (but very high considering only ~1.2% of Steam users run Linux).

    Leave a comment:


  • 3vi1
    replied
    Originally posted by ssokolow View Post
    If Linux were a "one version for everyone" thing like Windows and MacOS, they'd have supported it much sooner.
    Related question: Is this "one version for everyone" Windows that people keep talking about XP, Vista, 7, 8, or 8.1? 32, or 64-bit? And with which SP and hotfixes?

    (grinning and ducking)

    Leave a comment:


  • ssokolow
    replied
    Originally posted by justmy2cents View Post
    and they do awesome job, by supporting major DRM pushers. let's see what W3 is coming out for: Windows (MS), PS4 (Sony), Xboxone (MS). clear mission statement, what can i say.

    one would think that someone making such fuzz about DRM would be leading the front of gaming on DRM free platforms, not shown up after everyone else already did
    It has nothing to do with Linux being a "DRM-free platform". It's that, because they handle support themselves and offer a 30-day money-back guarantee if they can't get the game working for you on a supported platform, they were scared off by the profusion of Linux distros for a long time.

    If Linux were a "one version for everyone" thing like Windows and MacOS, they'd have supported it much sooner.

    Leave a comment:

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