The DragonBox Pyra Moves Closer As OpenPandora Successor

[CFWhitman]

The name of the project lead is Michael Mrozek (not Mozrek).

As to the target audience of the Pyra, I believe I am it, and there is not as much overlap as you might think.

I have a Pandora, so I will compare it to other devices as well.

Laptop vs. Pyra and Pandora
I have a number of laptops (being a 'Linux geek,' older laptop write-offs from my company are easy to set up for use, and still work well). My current best laptop for using unplugged, though, is probably my purchased HP Chromebook, which I have installed Linux on (after upgrading the emmc to 128GB). It has nice battery life (more than 7 hours), but it won't fit in my pocket, and trying to hold it while using it to play a game is rather impractical. It is nice for browsing the Internet. There is not a lot of overlap here.

Tablet vs. Pyra and Pandora
I have two tablets, a seven inch (w/ a Rockchip 3188 SoC) and a 9 inch (with some kind of TI OMAP 4 processor). Not having gaming controls makes either one not sufficient for playing old games. Touch screens are not good for this, and they get worse all the while between thorough cleanings. They can be sufficient for the right types of games. They are nice for viewing YouTube, DailyMotion, or Netflix, etc. on the go. They are good for reading books. They are decent for music. These tablets are not as portable as a Pandora, and don't tend to run as long, particularly with constant offline use (though suspend probably works a bit better at least on the nine inch tablet). The Pandora is great for playing old emulated games, of course. The Pandora is OK for YouTube, and w/ an external WiFi dongle or by running Android 2.3 can be OK for DailyMotion, and by running Android can run Netflix sufficiently (not really well). The Pyra will almost certainly be much better for these things. The Pandora is also good for reading books (and surprisingly, I do a lot of my fiction reading on the Pandora). It's not so great for PDF based comics, though, thanks to the small screen size. The sound quality of the Pandora is fantastic for music, and the Pyra will have the same audio architecture, but will have a greater range of music management software (since memory and CPU power will be greater).

As far as old games go, I wanted to add that thanks to the overhead of running Android, some emulation actually runs better on the Pandora than on Android devices with much more powerful SoC's. Playstation emulation on the Pandora is amazingly good, and better than on most Android devices. On the other hand, Nintendo 64 emulation is more of a stumbling block for the Pandora, and works well on moderately powerful Android devices (except for the poor controls). The Pyra's extra power should remedy this.

Phone vs. Pyra and Pandora
Well, at least a phone fits in your pocket. However, most other advantages of a phone (other than the ability to make calls) are the same as the advantages of a tablet other than screen size, and will be eliminated by the power of the Pyra. On the other hand, I like the Pandora better for reading (though a phone is decent for this), much better for word processing or any other office productivity type application, much better for games (of course), and music. I almost certainly will much prefer a Pyra for Internet browsing over a phone, since at the moment the only lack here for the Pandora is processing power. Of course the Pandora is better for coding, accessing USB sticks or full sized SD cards (or USB devices in general), or any kind of hacking.

Shield vs. Pyra and Pandora
I can't comment too much on this because I don't have a shield. I will say that a Shield won't fit in nearly as many pockets. Other than this I suspect that the greatest advantages of a Shield over the Pandora are Nintendo 64 emulation and native Android game support (including titles particularly for the Shield). Perhaps the Shield even has Playstation emulation that measures up to the Pandora thanks to its raw power. Of course the Pandora or Pyra has most of the same advantages other than gaming over a Shield as it has over a phone.

Of course a nice open phone like the Neo900 is expected to be will be similar to a Pandora/Pyra except for the gaming controls.

[torsionbar28]

In a sense the sheild and nvidia is like one of those games, one that is proprietary, has DRM, wont let you play offline, snoops on your details and logs your activity.

Fair enough, you have some strong points. It sounds like Shield has more drawbacks than I was aware of.

[kingu]

While many Pandora owners have shields, the shield falls short on a whole bunch of things the Pandora is. I used an Amiga when i was 5 years old or so, and the Pandora is a return to those times.
Both in terms of community based gaming, but also the fun of computing. Since then the onset of a dark age in computer development came and went. Development continued, but it was far from a straight line in the right direction. Game consoles too over and little by little the one man computer studios vanished or adapted. On the computer games side the small game-development companies eventually got bought up by bigger ones in turn proving incapable of producing much originality. I am happy to see a return to indie-gaming. While it _is_ the year of desktop linux, there is also a new age of ineptness. If we again look to games, especially casual android games are tailored to be addictive for all the wrong reasons, and feature in-game micropayments.

In a sense the sheild and nvidia is like one of those games, one that is proprietary, has DRM, wont let you play offline, snoops on your details and logs your activity. I think comparing game-performance is valid, but if you aren't actively detrimental to someone's freedom, that is an exclusive trait. Seeing only the things the shield is good at, is both dangerous, but its missing the point. A shield wont comfortably fit in your pants, nor does it have a keyboard. The pandora, nor pyra aren't game-only devices. It is for example a very capable quality audio machine.
To some people (like me) that is worth a lot, to people who might not be aware, objectively speaking it is better, and comparitivly the shield has an active fan hissing away inside the controller...

Nvidia has made something largely indistinguishable from many Chinese products. The Pandora and Pyra are different, and have a lot of value to bring to the table. Especially if you use game console-emulators on your sheild, in large part those came a community of people that aren't the nvidias of the world. What little familiarity there is left to the Linux on Android did not come from nvidia, and its evident in that the shield is bundled with a system for playing games hosted on a windows-only PC. Why should I care about that at all, I don't. One could allude to the infamy of the outreaching Thorvalds here. If you want that, that's perfectly fine, but appreciate the Pandora/Pyra for what it is.

[torsionbar28]

The case files and PCB files for the Sheild arent open either.
I have a hard time imagining that nvidia would care at all about the same people the pandora caters to. If you dont mind having no keyboard and want an android, game-consumption-device, by all means. On the Pandora the default OS is a lot better now, and you can use any GUI you want, even other linuxdistros if you feel adventurous. I agree on the case, and this initiative to build an aluminium case stands to solve that. https://www.dragonbox.de/en/pandora/...-preorder.html

That is the final part not manufactured in Germany.

Of course the target demographic isn't identical. But there is significant overlap I think. The Pandora was marketed as being primarily for playing vintage video games using console emulators. A "game-consumption" device, it would seem. Most of those same console emulators are available in the Google Play store for Android. Ergo, the NVidia Shield can perform the primary function of the Pandora, and at a much lower price point, with faster hardware. Of course you lose the open source DIY hackability of the Pandora, but I'll wager a guess that most casual users won't miss that. I'm not poo-poo'ing the Pandora, I bought one myself after all, just trying to look at it from a practical standpoint.

That aluminum case sure is nice looking, wow, I wish such a thing were available a few years earlier.

[profoundWHALE]

No no you really can't. Tablets are nice for books and movies and smart phones are okay for casual games and things like serving as a GPS, but well I'll let commodore explain this for me...

When I look back at the Amigas I get depressed. From what I remember, my Dad said, "It was the best computer, but nobody knew." I don't really remember watching old ads like that, but I still like them because they were quick, to the point, and often displayed the product in normal use.

The operating system was definitely far ahead of its time, and some of my favourite games are still on there. Too bad the hard drive failed on it after 15+ years. I have no idea what model it is though, I'll have to check when I get home. However, I did prefer how windows did the Minimize, Maximize, and Close at the top, and it was a little confusing beyond that since for the most part I was used to Windows 95/98SE.

Huh, looks like the same thing with the Dreamcast, I had a lot of fun playing games like Dead or Alive and Powerstone, but the system eventually died out. What I liked about it was how it felt really responsive when I pushed buttons.

[kingu]

IMO I prefer retro gaming on my living room TV. And for that purpose, the Ouya console fills the niche perfectly, with excellent performance and a real gaming controller. And at only $99, you can't beat the price.

I owned one of the original first run Pandoras, and while it did what it claimed to, the GUI was unresponsive and clunky to use, and the plastic outer casing of the device was chintzy feeling. It was awfully expensive for what it was, and I ended up selling mine.

While it isn't open source, the Nvidia Shield seems like a great value for portable retro gaming. It can access Google Play store and use all the console emulators. I have a hard time believing that any community effort will yield a better quality product at a lower price.

The case files and PCB files for the Sheild arent open either.
I have a hard time imagining that nvidia would care at all about the same people the pandora caters to. If you dont mind having no keyboard and want an android, game-consumption-device, by all means. On the Pandora the default OS is a lot better now, and you can use any GUI you want, even other linuxdistros if you feel adventurous. I agree on the case, and this initiative to build an aluminium case stands to solve that. https://www.dragonbox.de/en/pandora/...-preorder.html

That is the final part not manufactured in Germany.

[torsionbar28]

The Pandora and Pyra are in a weird niche where most of the people who want them are either too young to afford them, or old enough to already afford/own more powerful laptops that they already use for emulation and Linux. It seems that the majority of emulation/Linux aficionados would be more likely to buy the much less expensive and nicer form-factor GCW Zero to fill that gap in their utility belt - even if it is way less powerful.

IMO I prefer retro gaming on my living room TV. And for that purpose, the Ouya console fills the niche perfectly, with excellent performance and a real gaming controller. And at only $99, you can't beat the price.

I owned one of the original first run Pandoras, and while it did what it claimed to, the GUI was unresponsive and clunky to use, and the plastic outer casing of the device was chintzy feeling. It was awfully expensive for what it was, and I ended up selling mine.

While it isn't open source, the Nvidia Shield seems like a great value for portable retro gaming. It can access Google Play store and use all the console emulators. I have a hard time believing that any community effort will yield a better quality product at a lower price.

[Luke_Wolf]

You can do most of the same sorts of things (but not all, obviously) with a smartphone or tablet, and none of the free-tablet initiatives seem to have got anywhere.

The closest you can get without using a locked-down mess is probably bolting one of those cheapo touchscreens to a BeagleBoard with an HDMI->LVDS convertor, and that would be horrible.

No no you really can't. Tablets are nice for books and movies and smart phones are okay for casual games and things like serving as a GPS, but well I'll let commodore explain this for me...

[cutterjohn]

Well the target price is not know because there are still numerous elements to fix before reaching a final conclusion.

As for your later point about the GCW Zero, it's not for the same crowd. The Pandora and the Pyra are for people who want a full handheld computer, keyboard included. The GCW Zero is only useful for emulation and not much else.
There's still a market for that kind of positioning, because there's no other device out there that has gaming controls and keyboards in a single device.

Yep and order #/production runs will also affect price, although I suspect that it will remain in the 100s to low 1000s so at the end of the day won't end up affecting price much at all. More importantly will be the component costs and base costs for modlings, cases, pcbs, etc.

[FLHerne]

What other options exactly? The only other things in that category are WinCE mini-computers, and well... they're WinCE.

You can do most of the same sorts of things (but not all, obviously) with a smartphone or tablet, and none of the free-tablet initiatives seem to have got anywhere.

The closest you can get without using a locked-down mess is probably bolting one of those cheapo touchscreens to a BeagleBoard with an HDMI->LVDS convertor, and that would be horrible.