The DragonBox Pyra Moves Closer As OpenPandora Successor

[kingu]

What other options exactly? The only other things in that category are WinCE mini-computers, and well... they're WinCE.

Most importantly it is different in ways other systems are flawed, not full on WinCE-flawed, which is insult to injury, but if you have to go there you are considering options to pocketable clamshells with keyboard, and for that the Pandora hasn't gotten replaced by anyone else.

This used to be a thing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-mobile_PC. However I think the ancestry heritage to the Pandora is the IBM palmtop 110. Not a direct link, as it came to be as an idea of what the various state of open linux handhelds did wrong.

What they did right was run Linux, which was cool in itself back then. I think they opened up more to tinkering as a result of being security-flawed initially more than anything else. As those people became the userbase, all of a sudden software, d-pads and connectivity fixed themselves, most prominently on the GP2X. The enginers at Gamepark, which made it, abandoned ship and became Gamepark Holdings. While both existed at one point, the latter was more welcoming towards hackery and the former went bankrrupt. All very fine, but korean Gamepark Holdings lacked the connection with their userbase that makes the Pandora the community device it is.

Having a open ecosystem that you are allowed to tinker with, which has a free and copyleft side to it, is just as awesome today as what was on offer back then in the GP2X days and before. While things have gotten better, they have also gotten worse in terms of privacy. And that's unfortunately the crucial point to make, if a device lends itself to spying on me, it isn't my device, its someone else's by the nature of allowing them to do that. I could make effort towards making it mine, but frankly I'm tired of doing it as a necessity, and I don't really want to support the companies that make it a requirement. I buy a device, that's my device. Call me old fashioned if you want.

The longer down you dig in bootloaders and firmware (2) the more ugliness there is to find, and it has then long since stopped being a trivial issue. If you manage to get past drivers, (some part of what www.replicant.us helps fix on Android.)
with modem control and shared memory with CPU on other devices ultimately it really comes down to a hardware issue, seemingly not by accident. And whatever you want to believe, there is always the safe stance in supporting someone who is on your team, in doing something about it. Except for the pyra, and the pandora (which has no modem) your options are few and far between, luckily they do exist. Most of it doesn't go past having board-only on offer, but if that wont stop you, then all the better for you. Novena laptop has something for both.

On the 'it is a phone, mainly'-front, the GTA04A5, and the neo900 (if you want a keyboard) comes to mind, which are very nice initiatives.

[FLHerne]

What other options exactly? The only other things in that category are WinCE mini-computers, and well... they're WinCE.

You can do most of the same sorts of things (but not all, obviously) with a smartphone or tablet, and none of the free-tablet initiatives seem to have got anywhere.

The closest you can get without using a locked-down mess is probably bolting one of those cheapo touchscreens to a BeagleBoard with an HDMI->LVDS convertor, and that would be horrible.

[cutterjohn]

Well the target price is not know because there are still numerous elements to fix before reaching a final conclusion.

As for your later point about the GCW Zero, it's not for the same crowd. The Pandora and the Pyra are for people who want a full handheld computer, keyboard included. The GCW Zero is only useful for emulation and not much else.
There's still a market for that kind of positioning, because there's no other device out there that has gaming controls and keyboards in a single device.

Yep and order #/production runs will also affect price, although I suspect that it will remain in the 100s to low 1000s so at the end of the day won't end up affecting price much at all. More importantly will be the component costs and base costs for modlings, cases, pcbs, etc.

[Luke_Wolf]

You can do most of the same sorts of things (but not all, obviously) with a smartphone or tablet, and none of the free-tablet initiatives seem to have got anywhere.

The closest you can get without using a locked-down mess is probably bolting one of those cheapo touchscreens to a BeagleBoard with an HDMI->LVDS convertor, and that would be horrible.

No no you really can't. Tablets are nice for books and movies and smart phones are okay for casual games and things like serving as a GPS, but well I'll let commodore explain this for me...

[torsionbar28]

The Pandora and Pyra are in a weird niche where most of the people who want them are either too young to afford them, or old enough to already afford/own more powerful laptops that they already use for emulation and Linux. It seems that the majority of emulation/Linux aficionados would be more likely to buy the much less expensive and nicer form-factor GCW Zero to fill that gap in their utility belt - even if it is way less powerful.

IMO I prefer retro gaming on my living room TV. And for that purpose, the Ouya console fills the niche perfectly, with excellent performance and a real gaming controller. And at only $99, you can't beat the price.

I owned one of the original first run Pandoras, and while it did what it claimed to, the GUI was unresponsive and clunky to use, and the plastic outer casing of the device was chintzy feeling. It was awfully expensive for what it was, and I ended up selling mine.

While it isn't open source, the Nvidia Shield seems like a great value for portable retro gaming. It can access Google Play store and use all the console emulators. I have a hard time believing that any community effort will yield a better quality product at a lower price.

[kingu]

IMO I prefer retro gaming on my living room TV. And for that purpose, the Ouya console fills the niche perfectly, with excellent performance and a real gaming controller. And at only $99, you can't beat the price.

I owned one of the original first run Pandoras, and while it did what it claimed to, the GUI was unresponsive and clunky to use, and the plastic outer casing of the device was chintzy feeling. It was awfully expensive for what it was, and I ended up selling mine.

While it isn't open source, the Nvidia Shield seems like a great value for portable retro gaming. It can access Google Play store and use all the console emulators. I have a hard time believing that any community effort will yield a better quality product at a lower price.

The case files and PCB files for the Sheild arent open either.
I have a hard time imagining that nvidia would care at all about the same people the pandora caters to. If you dont mind having no keyboard and want an android, game-consumption-device, by all means. On the Pandora the default OS is a lot better now, and you can use any GUI you want, even other linuxdistros if you feel adventurous. I agree on the case, and this initiative to build an aluminium case stands to solve that. https://www.dragonbox.de/en/pandora/...-preorder.html

That is the final part not manufactured in Germany.

[profoundWHALE]

No no you really can't. Tablets are nice for books and movies and smart phones are okay for casual games and things like serving as a GPS, but well I'll let commodore explain this for me...

When I look back at the Amigas I get depressed. From what I remember, my Dad said, "It was the best computer, but nobody knew." I don't really remember watching old ads like that, but I still like them because they were quick, to the point, and often displayed the product in normal use.

The operating system was definitely far ahead of its time, and some of my favourite games are still on there. Too bad the hard drive failed on it after 15+ years. I have no idea what model it is though, I'll have to check when I get home. However, I did prefer how windows did the Minimize, Maximize, and Close at the top, and it was a little confusing beyond that since for the most part I was used to Windows 95/98SE.

Huh, looks like the same thing with the Dreamcast, I had a lot of fun playing games like Dead or Alive and Powerstone, but the system eventually died out. What I liked about it was how it felt really responsive when I pushed buttons.

[torsionbar28]

The case files and PCB files for the Sheild arent open either.
I have a hard time imagining that nvidia would care at all about the same people the pandora caters to. If you dont mind having no keyboard and want an android, game-consumption-device, by all means. On the Pandora the default OS is a lot better now, and you can use any GUI you want, even other linuxdistros if you feel adventurous. I agree on the case, and this initiative to build an aluminium case stands to solve that. https://www.dragonbox.de/en/pandora/...-preorder.html

That is the final part not manufactured in Germany.

Of course the target demographic isn't identical. But there is significant overlap I think. The Pandora was marketed as being primarily for playing vintage video games using console emulators. A "game-consumption" device, it would seem. Most of those same console emulators are available in the Google Play store for Android. Ergo, the NVidia Shield can perform the primary function of the Pandora, and at a much lower price point, with faster hardware. Of course you lose the open source DIY hackability of the Pandora, but I'll wager a guess that most casual users won't miss that. I'm not poo-poo'ing the Pandora, I bought one myself after all, just trying to look at it from a practical standpoint.

That aluminum case sure is nice looking, wow, I wish such a thing were available a few years earlier.

[kingu]

While many Pandora owners have shields, the shield falls short on a whole bunch of things the Pandora is. I used an Amiga when i was 5 years old or so, and the Pandora is a return to those times.
Both in terms of community based gaming, but also the fun of computing. Since then the onset of a dark age in computer development came and went. Development continued, but it was far from a straight line in the right direction. Game consoles too over and little by little the one man computer studios vanished or adapted. On the computer games side the small game-development companies eventually got bought up by bigger ones in turn proving incapable of producing much originality. I am happy to see a return to indie-gaming. While it _is_ the year of desktop linux, there is also a new age of ineptness. If we again look to games, especially casual android games are tailored to be addictive for all the wrong reasons, and feature in-game micropayments.

In a sense the sheild and nvidia is like one of those games, one that is proprietary, has DRM, wont let you play offline, snoops on your details and logs your activity. I think comparing game-performance is valid, but if you aren't actively detrimental to someone's freedom, that is an exclusive trait. Seeing only the things the shield is good at, is both dangerous, but its missing the point. A shield wont comfortably fit in your pants, nor does it have a keyboard. The pandora, nor pyra aren't game-only devices. It is for example a very capable quality audio machine.
To some people (like me) that is worth a lot, to people who might not be aware, objectively speaking it is better, and comparitivly the shield has an active fan hissing away inside the controller...

Nvidia has made something largely indistinguishable from many Chinese products. The Pandora and Pyra are different, and have a lot of value to bring to the table. Especially if you use game console-emulators on your sheild, in large part those came a community of people that aren't the nvidias of the world. What little familiarity there is left to the Linux on Android did not come from nvidia, and its evident in that the shield is bundled with a system for playing games hosted on a windows-only PC. Why should I care about that at all, I don't. One could allude to the infamy of the outreaching Thorvalds here. If you want that, that's perfectly fine, but appreciate the Pandora/Pyra for what it is.

[torsionbar28]

In a sense the sheild and nvidia is like one of those games, one that is proprietary, has DRM, wont let you play offline, snoops on your details and logs your activity.

Fair enough, you have some strong points. It sounds like Shield has more drawbacks than I was aware of.