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SDL 2.0 Has Been Officially Released

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  • mrugiero
    replied
    Originally posted by icculus View Post
    Among other reasons we really like zlib, you can read it in about 30 seconds and understand it without being a lawyer. The MPL definitely doesn't fit that requirement.

    It wasn't important to us to force people to publish their changes. We appreciate when they do, but if they don't, oh well.
    Thanks for the clarification. I assumed otherwise because of the previous license choice (LGPLv2 or GPLv2, I'm not sure).

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  • icculus
    replied
    Hey there, just going to fill in a few answers in one post here.

    Originally posted by shmerl View Post
    No OpenGL 4.x support? It sounds bad. Is it in the short term plans?
    4.x works. I thought "3.0+" was understood to mean "3.0 or later." Sorry if that wasn't clear.

    It's largely notable because 3.0 is when you started having to explicitly ask for a OpenGL version to get a "core" profile or whatnot. SDL supports all that now.

    Originally posted by mrugiero View Post
    Did anyone stated why they didn't go with that license, if they just wanted to allow static linking?
    Among other reasons we really like zlib, you can read it in about 30 seconds and understand it without being a lawyer. The MPL definitely doesn't fit that requirement.

    It wasn't important to us to force people to publish their changes. We appreciate when they do, but if they don't, oh well.

    Originally posted by Mickabouille View Post
    With games statically linked to SDL2 created if the coming years, I expect then to be completely lost (i.e. to be impossible to execute) in ten years.
    This is more likely to be true on Linux/Unix--less so on other platforms--but my hope is that people shipping Linux titles understand this enough to not statically link SDL, and/or will get enough shit from Linux users right away to understand they need to treat static linking as a bug. It's worth noting, though, that the zlib license lets you pull a useful function out of SDL2 and paste it into your program without all sorts of legal concerns, and static-linking the whole library aside, that's a good feature, too.

    Originally posted by peppercats View Post
    Still no option to make an sRGB context?
    This is definitely landing in 2.0.1; there's a patch sitting in Bugzilla right now to implement this here. Note that this only gets you Windows and X11 support...nothing else has the sRGB-capable bit thing yet, as far as I know.

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  • mrugiero
    replied
    Originally posted by Kristian Joensen View Post
    :
    Licenses quotes.
    Let's see the practicality of all of that, and why I simply disregard it. Think how much a game weighs, how much the library weighs, and then think of the weight of the final package you will distribute, because of an object file that will go unnoticed for years, until someone actually needs to relink. The sacrifice is higher than the gains, there. That's why I disregard them as "doesn't allow linking statically in closed source apps". I mean, it will take almost twice the disk space, for something few will use. This means twice the media discs or twice the download time. Distributing the source code of the library is reasonable, but an object file that represents almost the whole program PLUS the usable program is another thing.

    On the intention, that's what I understand they wanted, but they went with a liberal license that allows modifications to not be distributed as source code, instead of one that simply allows linking statically.

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  • stqn
    replied
    The MPL seems interesting indeed, as a middle ground between MIT/BSD/zlib and GPL/LGPL. Thanks for mentionning it.

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  • Kristian Joensen
    replied
    Originally posted by mrugiero View Post
    Didn't expected you to, as I said, I thought it was clear, it was obviously not, and that's what I tried to say. I thought it would be obvious by context, and it wasn't, just that.

    EDIT: Actually, I read it again and it seems quite obvious for me. I mean, if I stated that zlib allows you to keep the changes you do as closed source, and that's why I said I thought that was a poor license choice for this case, logically it's assumed we are talking about closed source programs (why would you keep the changes on the library closed, if you publish the code of the whole program?), and that I don't want the possible changes on the library to be closed (since, otherwise, zlib would actually be the best license for that). LGPL fulfills the latter, but doesn't allow the closed source programmer to link statically.
    :

    v3:

    4. Combined Works.
    You may convey a Combined Work under terms of your choice that, taken together, effectively do not restrict modification of the portions of the Library contained in the Combined Work and reverse engineering for debugging such modifications, if you also do each of the following:

    a) Give prominent notice with each copy of the Combined Work that the Library is used in it and that the Library and its use are covered by this License.
    b) Accompany the Combined Work with a copy of the GNU GPL and this license document.
    c) For a Combined Work that displays copyright notices during execution, include the copyright notice for the Library among these notices, as well as a reference directing the user to the copies of the GNU GPL and this license document.
    d) Do one of the following:
    0) Convey the Minimal Corresponding Source under the terms of this License, and the Corresponding Application Code in a form suitable for, and under terms that permit, the user to recombine or relink the Application with a modified version of the Linked Version to produce a modified Combined Work, in the manner specified by section 6 of the GNU GPL for conveying Corresponding Source.
    1) Use a suitable shared library mechanism for linking with the Library. A suitable mechanism is one that (a) uses at run time a copy of the Library already present on the user's computer system, and (b) will operate properly with a modified version of the Library that is interface-compatible with the Linked Version.
    and:

    5. Combined Libraries.
    You may place library facilities that are a work based on the Library side by side in a single library together with other library facilities that are not Applications and are not covered by this License, and convey such a combined library under terms of your choice, if you do both of the following:

    a) Accompany the combined library with a copy of the same work based on the Library, uncombined with any other library facilities, conveyed under the terms of this License.
    b) Give prominent notice with the combined library that part of it is a work based on the Library, and explaining where to find the accompanying uncombined form of the same work.
    v2.1:

    6. As an exception to the Sections above, you may also combine or link a "work that uses the Library" with the Library to produce a work containing portions of the Library, and distribute that work under terms of your choice, provided that the terms permit modification of the work for the customer's own use and reverse engineering for debugging such modifications.

    You must give prominent notice with each copy of the work that the Library is used in it and that the Library and its use are covered by this License. You must supply a copy of this License. If the work during execution displays copyright notices, you must include the copyright notice for the Library among them, as well as a reference directing the user to the copy of this License. Also, you must do one of these things:

    a) Accompany the work with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code for the Library including whatever changes were used in the work (which must be distributed under Sections 1 and 2 above); and, if the work is an executable linked with the Library, with the complete machine-readable "work that uses the Library", as object code and/or source code, so that the user can modify the Library and then relink to produce a modified executable containing the modified Library. (It is understood that the user who changes the contents of definitions files in the Library will not necessarily be able to recompile the application to use the modified definitions.)
    b) Use a suitable shared library mechanism for linking with the Library. A suitable mechanism is one that (1) uses at run time a copy of the library already present on the user's computer system, rather than copying library functions into the executable, and (2) will operate properly with a modified version of the library, if the user installs one, as long as the modified version is interface-compatible with the version that the work was made with.
    c) Accompany the work with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give the same user the materials specified in Subsection 6a, above, for a charge no more than the cost of performing this distribution.
    d) If distribution of the work is made by offering access to copy from a designated place, offer equivalent access to copy the above specified materials from the same place.
    e) Verify that the user has already received a copy of these materials or that you have already sent this user a copy.
    and:

    7. You may place library facilities that are a work based on the Library side-by-side in a single library together with other library facilities not covered by this License, and distribute such a combined library, provided that the separate distribution of the work based on the Library and of the other library facilities is otherwise permitted, and provided that you do these two things:

    a) Accompany the combined library with a copy of the same work based on the Library, uncombined with any other library facilities. This must be distributed under the terms of the Sections above.
    b) Give prominent notice with the combined library of the fact that part of it is a work based on the Library, and explaining where to find the accompanying uncombined form of the same work.
    Edit:

    MPLv2 can be GPL compatible but is not clear to me that it would have that effect on SDLv2. I will have to rre-ead that part of it. The SDL guys probably want allow both GPL AND propietary game and applications to use SDL. It seems MPLv2 would allow static linking with BOTH GPL AND proprietary software.
    Last edited by Kristian Joensen; 08-14-2013, 01:13 PM.

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  • mrugiero
    replied
    Originally posted by alanc View Post
    Yes, Mozilla Public License (MPL) allows that, as do MPL derivatives like CDDL.
    Did anyone stated why they didn't go with that license, if they just wanted to allow static linking?

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  • alanc
    replied
    Originally posted by mrugiero View Post
    Is there any license that has copyleft but allows static linking? I see zlib (along any liberal licenses) as a poor choice for SDL, since it allows to keep changes closed.
    Yes, Mozilla Public License (MPL) allows that, as do MPL derivatives like CDDL.

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  • mrugiero
    replied
    Originally posted by stqn View Post
    Sorry for not being a mind reader.
    Didn't expected you to, as I said, I thought it was clear, it was obviously not, and that's what I tried to say. I thought it would be obvious by context, and it wasn't, just that.

    EDIT: Actually, I read it again and it seems quite obvious for me. I mean, if I stated that zlib allows you to keep the changes you do as closed source, and that's why I said I thought that was a poor license choice for this case, logically it's assumed we are talking about closed source programs (why would you keep the changes on the library closed, if you publish the code of the whole program?), and that I don't want the possible changes on the library to be closed (since, otherwise, zlib would actually be the best license for that). LGPL fulfills the latter, but doesn't allow the closed source programmer to link statically.
    Last edited by mrugiero; 08-13-2013, 09:41 PM.

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  • stqn
    replied
    Originally posted by mrugiero View Post
    I'm aware of all of that, and wasn't the point. I thought it was implicit that I meant on closed source programs (i.e., most mainstream games), and without any extra requirement on your program, with the obvious exceptions of publishing any changes you did to the library.
    Sorry for not being a mind reader.

    Leave a comment:


  • computerquip
    replied
    It says that because 3.x is the most common to be used in modern games. If you look at a video cards specifications, you'll often see that it boasts 3.3 support without mentioning 4.x at all. Haswell does this and AMD does this.

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