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Is Valve's Steam Client Bad & Damaging For Linux?

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  • #51
    Originally posted by Dodger73 View Post
    Steam is absolutely, positively, with no doubt whatsoever in my mind, the way to go for PC games. Further, I believe Steam is almost single-handedly responsible for the independent game scene to have become as vibrant as it is today. Having Steam on Linux is an unbelievably fantastic opportunity for anyone who wants to see Linux grow past the boundaries of its niche.
    I disagree, Steam while having some benefits, never got rid of legacy approach with imposing DRM. While I agree, that expecting major games to become fully open source is rather futile, but expecting them not to use any DRM is very reasonable. That's why I prefer GOG's way - DRM free, point blank, but their problem is platforms coverage. They added Mac OSX support some time ago, but that's about it so far.

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    • #52
      Originally posted by shmerl View Post
      I disagree, Steam while having some benefits, never got rid of legacy approach with imposing DRM. While I agree, that expecting major games to become fully open source is rather futile, but expecting them not to use any DRM is very reasonable. That's why I prefer GOG's way - DRM free, point blank, but their problem is platforms coverage. They added Mac OSX support some time ago, but that's about it so far.
      Yeah, there's a chicken-and-egg problem for you. I happen to think that PC game DRM is hurting the industry more than it's helping it (it's more trouble than it's worth, really). Similarly to the music industry, counting every pirated copy as a lost sale is BS (and the data supports that assertion - piracy isn't affecting sales nearly as much as some people think).
      The problem here is that publishers are risk avrrse. Not having DRM on a big title is, to the publishing side, taking a hundred million dollar risk - not something they're likely to do on a whim, until it becomes obvious that it's not necessary. That perception is changing though, partially through some studios (CD Projekt RED comes to mind) releasing their PC titles DRM free and still having impressive sales numbers to show for it.
      That being said, Steam's DRM is some of the best I've seen not in terms of effectiveness but in terms of usability. Like any DRM it doesn't prevent piracy as much as delay it, but as a user I've found it to be relatively unintrusive. As a matter of fact, with one exception, I haven't noticed it at all in the dozens of games I've purchased and played on Steam over the years - which is something I can't say with a straight face of SecuROM or similar solutions.
      As a developer, it's reasonably easy to integrate and we largely have control over how far we want to go with it. It's not ideal, but then what is? The one-eyed is king of the blind, and both as a user and developer, I'll take Steam's DRM over all other solutions any day of the week.

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      • #53
        Originally posted by shmerl View Post
        I disagree, Steam while having some benefits, never got rid of legacy approach with imposing DRM. While I agree, that expecting major games to become fully open source is rather futile, but expecting them not to use any DRM is very reasonable. That's why I prefer GOG's way - DRM free, point blank, but their problem is platforms coverage. They added Mac OSX support some time ago, but that's about it so far.
        Well, like I said, in the mean while we also have Desura. They don't have the anti-DRM philosophy per se, but they don't include any in their client (and the client itself is optional). So any DRM there is courtesy of the game developer only. Hence the majority of titles there have no DRM. It's not as straight-forward to figure out what does have it and what doesn't compared to GOG, but it's still not too hard.

        Originally posted by Dodger73 View Post
        As a developer, it's reasonably easy to integrate and we largely have control over how far we want to go with it. It's not ideal, but then what is? The one-eyed is king of the blind, and both as a user and developer, I'll take Steam's DRM over all other solutions any day of the week.
        Well, the ideal is no DRM, of course. But if you absolutely must have some sort of online DRM, then the Impulse::Reactor approach is the way to do it. If you haven't heard about it, I suggest reading about it here: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010...re-of-impulse/ Though the unfortunate thing about it is that GameStop bought out Impuse, and I don't know if they are continuing the distribution of it or not. Still, it's the approach that counts.

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        • #54
          It has the potential to broaden the Linux desktop demographic, that doesnt require direct benefits to open source, but there should be indirect benefits, kinda like a half-way house.

          As for the driver improvments, i dont see any benefit yet, TF2 i get like 15 fps under linux, 30+ under windows.

          I love free software, but im not going to accept an inferior gaming experience using open source drivers, or infect my free system with proprietary drivers.

          For me, its so close and yet so far.

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          • #55
            Simply step back and see that Steam is just a choice. You also can use Ubuntu Software Centre or other distro solutions for paid or free content.

            My Steam use has increased in that not only am I playing games from time to time, but I'm going leave it running as a IM and Voice Chat client for some friends. A replacement for Skype which I ditched when MS bought them out..

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            • #56
              The small number of loud crazy folk

              I think today's SMBC comic sums this discussion up well http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2939

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              • #57
                Originally posted by Dodger73 View Post
                You know, it's funny. Many people want AAA games with AAA scope and AAA production values on Linux. Some are just not willing or able to see the caveats that come with that.
                ...
                Saying that all the AAA studios need to just release their titles as OSS is a little more than short sighted. It's like demanding movie studios to release their block busters for free on YouTube.
                A bit too much hyperbole imho. Nobody is asking for giving out stuff for free. This would be completely irrational. Keep the content under whatever license you prefer. I mean content in the widest sense from art to scripts and shaders. You know the stuff that makes the actual game. Just allow your users to run the game on the platform of their choice by making the source of your game engine available. This is what I would understand with open-sourcing a game. And to my delight there are companies doing it, even if with a temporal delay.

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                • #58
                  Originally posted by shmerl View Post
                  My main concern is not open source so much (heavy commercial games are very rarely open source, especially their art assets), but primarily the fact that Steam endorses DRM. If not for that fact, Steam for Linux could be really great. But if some games would come to Steam on Linux, and not through any other channels - I won't buy such games, because of being opposed to DRM.

                  The only solid alternative as a digital distributor could be GOG, since they have a principal anti DRM stance. They however are slow on deciding to support Linux. Voice your interest in it, to let GOG know that you care: http://www.gog.com/wishlist/site/add...sions_of_games
                  I do not want to defend drm, but I have seen far more irritating drm before steam.

                  I also like to add, I gamed before I had ever heard of Unix, Linux or windows.
                  I played in arcades, and saw at some point, less pinball machines more vid games coming.


                  Back home from Atari ST to Windows Me, Xp, 7
                  To play a game, insert game disk or it wont start.

                  With steam I do not have to do this.

                  I have not tested all games, but I remember starting (on windows) LFD2, and I got a warning.
                  There was a network problem.
                  Steam could not connect, I still could play the single player, but steam warned me that my progress could get lost.
                  ( Has to do with your stats, your save games are on your harddisk. )

                  Before there was steam, I remember discussions about Linux graphic drivers.
                  From some of my opensource friends, and from amd, nvidia, the answer was who needs them?

                  With firefox, only since steam, I can't tell anymore, if I am on windows or Linux.
                  Before this, moving my mouse was enough.

                  amd catalyst. the opensource might become an options but aren't right now.

                  Since years my pc is dual boot, first linux was openSUSE 9. dual boot with W me or xp.

                  The only real problem, I had with Linux, my games don't work.

                  Now steam, which I was already using, is available on my favorite opensource os.

                  You can install your games on more then one pc.
                  You can't, however use them at the same time.
                  That is a restriction, but one I don't mind.

                  I bought, and installed Serious Sam 3 on openSUSE. When I rebooted, and started W7, steam started. logged in, and there was for me to download, SS3.
                  If you do not like steam to auto start, you can change this behavior.
                  When steam is not running,and you start a game, you can see steam too, but the game will start.
                  There are no extra clicks, it does not get in our way.

                  I have no experience with playing without an internet connection.
                  Some games will, some won't work.
                  There are games with more drm, but that is not because of steam.

                  SS3, gives me allot of fun, but also shows the state of the amd driver on Linux.
                  Or maybe just the openGl part.

                  This game developer and AMD are talking.
                  They did not do so before.

                  Thank you Valve.
                  Last edited by Gps4l; 07 April 2013, 06:12 PM.

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                  • #59
                    Originally posted by jan1024188 View Post
                    Proprietary software is what GNU/Linux needs right now. We need professional a-grade games, video editors etc. Not to mention software companies like Valve are contributing a lot to drivers, tools etc... things that we would not have otherwise. Linux needs a good push in right direction, we wan't it to be 'better', don't we?

                    I just don't see how can a hippie in his basement develop a $1,000,000 software project by himself. Unfortunately, some software has to be proprietary to exist. It is fundamentally impossible for it to be free as freedom or even free as free beer.
                    So this is what really boggles my mind.

                    Here we have someone who's (supposedly) using a free software OS, based on a free software kernel, which in itself is the largest collaborative software project in the history of mankind, period, open or proprietary, and he/she still thinks open source software is developed by "hippies in basements"... uh, what?

                    So let me get this straight. If only proprietary software is able to produce quality, then why the fuck do you care if some "hippie-developed" OS like Linux gets proprietary software released for it or not? You should just stick to windows, that's some REAL proprietary stuff, they even have the money to spend billion on ad campaigns with dorky chicks singing about sugar and shit like that.

                    There's a fundamental contradiction in your argument: Linux is open source, yet you want proprietary stuff on Linux because "open source stuff sucks". Why.. what... error error does not compute * head explodes *

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                    • #60
                      Originally posted by Dodger73 View Post
                      Further, I believe Steam is almost single-handedly responsible for the independent game scene to have become as vibrant as it is today.
                      That's an odd way to misspell "Kickstarter".

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