Is Valve's Steam Client Bad & Damaging For Linux?

[jayrulez]

Thanks!



You are allowed to request the source, whether you are entitled to or not. I stated the above based on the notion that you are allowed to do so. From your response, I concluded you were against the fact that people are currently pushing Valve to release the source code. Hence my comment.




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Sorry to hear that. Look here.

No, I'm not against people suggesting this. In fact, I support people politely doing so.

Thanks for the link. I've used testdisk before. I'll try it if my other efforts do not work out.

[ssam]

everyone should make a donation to their favourite opensource game every now an then.

[shmerl]

My main concern is not open source so much (heavy commercial games are very rarely open source, especially their art assets), but primarily the fact that Steam endorses DRM. If not for that fact, Steam for Linux could be really great. But if some games would come to Steam on Linux, and not through any other channels - I won't buy such games, because of being opposed to DRM.

The only solid alternative as a digital distributor could be GOG, since they have a principal anti DRM stance. They however are slow on deciding to support Linux. Voice your interest in it, to let GOG know that you care: http://www.gog.com/wishlist/site/add...sions_of_games

[Rexilion]

Huh? All it took me to run steam on Fedora was to add this repo and issue a "yum install steam". And I'm even on x86_64!

Maybe the package has to be heavily modified for it to work on Fedora? Did not check the RPM though...

[GreatEmerald]

No offense but that's a very narrow view. How is supporting closed source companies not valuing our freedoms? Apples and oranges. I don't have a right to the source code of a Linux software just because it runs on Linux. And I WANT Steam to be ported along with it's massive library. If I could get every dev on Steam to start porting their games to Linux, even if those games were not open source, I'd be happy. I value my freedom. Freedom of choice to use Linux instead of windows.

In this case the freedom I was talking about is the freedom to be able to use the game you have purchased, in its original form, at any other given time in the future, and other related ones. See this for more information: http://www.gamersbillofrights.com/ I didn't mean Free Software. Sorry if that was a bit ambiguous, maybe I should have used the word "rights" instead.

Did he even ever say that he wanted the source code? He said he could not accept the EULA and DRM, which means he is doing the honest thing by not using it. You should all calm down and stop acting like someone sacrificed a baby on your doorstep or something.

Yeap, that.

He said that we weren't valuing our freedoms by embracing closed source software.

The DRM isn't required. A lot of games ship on Steam without it.

So stop being so defensive.

Nope, I never said that. It would be nice of Steam was OSS, but first and foremost it should respect the customers. And yes, the DRM isn't required - but it's opt-out, not opt-in. Also, using the Steam client is required in either case, and that also requires you to accept their EULA. And I can't accept an EULA that reserves the right to install spyware and the right to ban you without warning, revoking your rights to play all of the games you have purchased.

-Who in their right mind would decide that the X button doesn't close but only minimizes the app?

Well, to be fair, programs like Amarok also do that. That's because there is no standard "minimise to tray" button. But at least Amarok allows you to configure whether it closes or minimises when you press the close button.

[ethana2]

Somebody, somewhere, will bitch no matter what.

MY only real problem with Steam is that a lot of the games I bought in the humble bundles that are all cross-platform aren't available for Ubuntu *using* Steam, which means a lot of wasted potential. I hope over the next year or so that gets sorted out. I think of an OS like a road system. The grocery store shouldn't have to be socialist, the restaurants shouldn't have to be socialist just to have public roads. Just the roads. So I want my OS to be Free, and after that, the more competition the better.

[Dodger73]

You know, it's funny. Many people want AAA games with AAA scope and AAA production values on Linux. Some are just not willing or able to see the caveats that come with that.
Disclaimer: I'm not trying to be belligerent or obnoxious with this post - simply trying to point out how I see it.

Let me define today's AAA first. I'm talking about games with 8+ hours of gameplay, every minute of which contains finely tuned and crafted content. With top-of-the-line artwork, and state of the art technology in the rendering, physics, animation, AI, and gameplay departments. With narrative, good writing, and voiceover. With original music and great sound and effects design.

I've worked in the industry for various big and small, independent and publisher-owned studios for 12 years. Let me say this loud and clear. The time where teams of three people could make a state of the art AAA game in their garage are long gone. The state of the art has evolved way past the point where that is possible.
For those who aren't aware, AAA game development today involves teams of 70+ engineers, designers, artists, animators, writers and producers (and the project leadership to coordinate all of this), takes 2+ years, costs $30+M and is one of the most complex software projects you can imagine. It's a 2 year full-time job (and by that I mean 40hrs a week are most likely not cutting it) for 70+ people. It's difficult and takes an extremely cohesive team with a very strong vision to even come close to completion. You can't release at version 0.2 in the hopes that it'll drum up enough interest to keep development going through the remaining year and a half. You can't waste time either, because if you're not done in 2-3 years you end up redoing substantial portions of your work, because the state of the art will have run away from you while you were busy hammering away at your game (been there, done that). Your lead designer going off the reservation for three months because they've got to deal with college finals could deal a fatal blow to your project.
When completed, if you want maximum exposure, you have to go cross-platform, including consoles, which rules out OSS from the get-go. If you don't, you want to make sure that as many people as possible buy your PC only game to recoup the substantial development expenses. Steam is absolutely, positively, with no doubt whatsoever in my mind, the way to go for PC games. Further, I believe Steam is almost single-handedly responsible for the independent game scene to have become as vibrant as it is today. Having Steam on Linux is an unbelievably fantastic opportunity for anyone who wants to see Linux grow past the boundaries of its niche.


I like OSS as much as the next guy. I use Linux exclusively at home (except for games, but that's now changing too), and am a big fan of KDE and the concept of OSS. Like most, I contribute not nearly as much as I feel I should.
The reality however, is, that nobody has figured out to date, how to handle a project like this in an open source environment. I'd love if it was the case, and while I can see some solutions for some of the obstacles standing in the way of an OSS AAA game project, I can't see solutions for anywhere close to all of them - and I think about bringing game projects to completion, and solving the myriad of problems that crop up every day, a lot. It's my job, and I like to think I'm not half bad at it. Saying that all the AAA studios need to just release their titles as OSS is a little more than short sighted. It's like demanding movie studios to release their block busters for free on YouTube.

It's not that simple.

[TheOne]

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I think of an OS like a road system. The grocery store shouldn't have to be socialist, the restaurants shouldn't have to be socialist just to have public roads. Just the roads. So I want my OS to be Free, and after that, the more competition the better.

Excellent analogy

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Saying that all the AAA studios need to just release their titles as OSS is a little more than short sighted. It's like demanding movie studios to release their block busters for free on YouTube.
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Words of wisdom

We have to thank all developers that have invested their time for free to develop excellent applications but there is still people that need some food to eat.

[qlum]

I think valve sure is helpful for linux as a whole, sure there are problems on non debian based systems sure its not open source but desktop linux would never really go into mainstream use without closed source stuff, steam just is closed source always has been and always will be. Among the users especially the new users valve wants to attract debian and more specifically ubuntu based systems are most common so primarily supporting those is fairly logical especially if you realize that non debian based linux distro's only amount to around 0.31% of the steam users this is devided under all the non debian based distro's with individual versions most of the individual versions are no more then 0.01% of the userbase so really the stat's don't lie.

Anyway 3 other big factors to the recent linux gaming growth are the kickstarters, humble indie bundles and Unity being ported to linux, unity seems to take up momentum now especially on bigger indie games.

[entropy]

The grocery store shouldn't have to be socialist, the restaurants shouldn't have to be socialist just to have public roads. Just the roads. So I want my OS to be Free, and after that, the more competition the better.

I'm sure someone will complain that's it's not about if the butchery is socialist or not but if they give away the recipes of the sausages.