In an ideal world, the FOSS drivers would get to a point where we would barely need to worry about using the blob drivers and then the Out of the Box functionality and stability in terms of graphic drivers would far surpass even Windows.
For the time being though, if it's possible, I would have thought they would have to use Catalyst (in SteamBox). Which is maybe a little surprising if it actually is going to be an AMD machine, but I can't say this is a bad thing. NVIDIA might be the easiest way, but going with AMD could not only help that company out, but improve one of the drivers (blob or FOSS driver depending on what is used by default).
It's all very early doors though, things could change.
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Originally posted by johnc View PostIn the context of an off-the-shelf console it would certainly not be ordinary to expect the customer to install drivers before use.
Obviously a "Steam Box" would have to have proprietary drivers pre-installed or it's DOA as a consumer product.
Originally posted by BO$$ View Posthardworking innocent hardware vendors. I am sensing irony here. What makes these vendors guilty until proven innocent? Cause I always read in these threads the idea that the FOSS guys are good and somehow AMD and Nvidia are evil. Why this assumption? Why every time I challenge this assumption I am told that FOSS good hardware vendors bad? Is this some kind of cult here?
Also, I selectively buy AMD hardware, so I can not think of them to be that evil.
Originally posted by gamerk2 View PostNowadays, Windows just automatically downloads/installs the drivers once it sees the hardware for the first time, without user intervention. (Sometimes, this is a BAD thing, like when you want to remove a driver to install a newer version, and Windows re-downloads the old driver because its database isn't updated yet.) But still, seamless to the user. Since I built my Win 7 x64 PC, I can't remember having to manually install a single driver (aside from occasional GPU driver updates, of course).
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Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View PostBecause both the GPL and the blobs' licenses (EULA) prohibit it.
2.1.2 Linux/FreeBSD Exception. Notwithstanding the foregoing terms of Section 2.1.1, SOFTWARE designed exclusively for use on the Linux or FreeBSD operating systems, or other operating systems derived from the source code to these operating systems, may be copied and redistributed, provided that the binary files thereof are not modified in any way (except for unzipping of compressed files).
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Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View PostAnd why should people see this as a Linux weakness, when a default Windows install does not ship with full fledged vendor drivers either? By the way, I am not entirely sure how it works, but I thought Ubuntu had Jockey?
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even windows i think breaks API and ABI when releasing service packs. for exp i know for sure that XP with sp3 wont work with original cd-driver that was made lets say for sp1 they will tell u need to update to lastest service pack bla bla to be able to install driver.But in linux land its true things get broken more often and i think must be nightmare for delopers of graphic driver to keep up to date on linux. But my hopes are Intel will make more and more powerfull integrated GPUs so in the future i plan to use only intel hardware at least i wont have to worry about kernel and xorg updates. Even with this shortcomings i still prefer linux over anything just when playing games i use windoze.
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Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View PostAre you seriously suggesting that most gamers don't know how to install vendor supplied graphics drivers?
Obviously a "Steam Box" would have to have proprietary drivers pre-installed or it's DOA as a consumer product.
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Originally posted by BO$$ View PostWhy do I have to install the proprietary drivers manually after installing Ubuntu? Why don't I get them by default?
And don't you think that you're whining too hard about what amounts to installing a package? I mean, how long are you going to whine about it? Just install the package and be done with it, FFS. Then don't upgrade the kernel or X and you'll never need to worry about ABI any more.
If you keep installing new versions of kernel and X, you obviously like what the developers are doing.
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Originally posted by BO$$ View PostMost people don't know shit about linux and wouldn't know to install the proprietary drivers. That would be a huge disservice to valve.
Originally posted by BO$$ View PostThe last category is the one that creates problems. Why do I have to install the proprietary drivers manually after installing Ubuntu? Why don't I get them by default? The fact is that open source is hardly a match for an army of true professional programmers. As long as the open source drivers suck they should not be promoted. They should be marginalized and hidden out of sight for it's one of the weaknesses of linux and people coming to linux will be disappointed int the current state of affairs. As long as proprietary are better they should be the default. It is only pragmatic. Anything else is bullshit.
And why should people see this as a Linux weakness, when a default Windows install does not ship with full fledged vendor drivers either? By the way, I am not entirely sure how it works, but I thought Ubuntu had Jockey?
Originally posted by BO$$ View PostBut wait! The open source idiots using arguments like 'linux is evolution not intelligent design' by God Almighty keep changing X.org so that the proprietary drivers need to be updated every month or so. So basically, AMD and Nvidia who don't owe linux shit but still provide us with drivers even when they don't need to, have to change their drivers to accommodate the changes in X.org.
Originally posted by Larian View PostStraw man, Hamish. My point was to caution against blind adherence to advocate positions because it's cool to do so. Is the point of advocacy, at least in part, not to upset the status quo in an attempt to work toward becoming the majority position? And once this is obtained, then do you not run the risk of the tyranny of that majority? One could argue that is precisely the position we are in now, but trading one foaming-at-the-mouth dictator for another with slightly differently colored spittle is not an improvement.
Originally posted by Larian View PostSome of the noise being made here on this subject (and their numbers are, thankfully, few) sounds remarkably like that of a dictator without a sufficiently large fan club. In common parlance they are oftentimes referred to as "wackos and nut jobs". I fear them with power, because they haven't demonstrated temperance with the "you're either with us or you're against us" stand on using proprietary drivers. Such hard-line stances are rarely appropriate.
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disappointed
I've been getting more and more disappointed with this. At first I thought it was a Console, only to find out it's just a PC. And there was so much Linux talk, but now they say you can just install Windows. At first glance it looks like people are throwing a $400 price around to which I say: If it's going to compete with other Consoles, it has to be under $200 or it's DOA.
This whole thing has been a scam it seems. I really thought Linux was going to get a boost, what a let down.
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