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The Problems Right Now For Gaming On Linux

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  • glasen
    replied
    Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    #3 There needs to be a better way to manage these repositories. I know that Ubuntu has a way to manage them but there has to be a better way. Like putting hotlinks in websites that you can click on and have it added to your system. Cause right now I keep bookmarks for repositories I want.
    Regarding external programs the easiest way is that a user only has to install a single package and the installed package itself generates the proper repository entries in the system. The DEB-packages of Steam and Google Chrome and many other external programs do follow this procedure.

    I also ran an update and accidentally got Wine 1.5.20, which doesn't play World of Warcraft anymore. So I gotta downgrade to 1.5.19, which is not a straight forward process.
    And because of this, adding repositories shouldn't be too easy. Users tend to install everything without thinking and a small hurdle ensures that the user thinks a least a little bit about what he is going to do.

    Leave a comment:


  • stqn
    replied
    Originally posted by curaga View Post
    The workload does show, many of the recent ports are rather buggy it seems.
    I don?t know about bugs but it would have been nice if he had taken the time to add alt-tab support in fullscreen games? Just something that switches to windowed mode, or iconifies the game?

    Leave a comment:


  • Gps4l
    replied
    Originally posted by moilami View Post
    Um, that is great option for me with Ivy Bridge Intel graphics.

    Very playable frame rates, no crashes, no nothing. TF2 Works just perfectly.

    Edit: Thinking about buying another Ivy Bridge box as a living room media center. Intel and Steam deliver so much!
    Intel is doing a great job, but I doubt you can play games like Aliens vs Predator 3. ( Direct X11 )
    If you are a serious gamer, you need a graphics card.
    I am pretty sure there are benchmarks on this site proofing this.
    From what I remember the shared memory is a bottle neck, for demanding games.


    On the other hand if you're happy, that all that matters.

    Leave a comment:


  • Calinou
    replied
    Originally posted by rang501 View Post
    Weird, I dont see any pulseaudio trolls here yet.
    PulseAudio rocks (no sarcasm). It lets you play several sound sources easily; people who whine about it should instead work so that they can earn more money and buy better CPUs...

    Leave a comment:


  • Gps4l
    replied
    Originally posted by moilami View Post
    Well yeah, the day will come when TF 2 will crash on my comp. That said, I have "played" 42 hours of it (the number!), and no crashes so far means that many people has done excellent job.

    People always report bad stuff, wanted to report good stuff.
    42 hours is very good !

    And I am very positive about the beta, and Valve.

    Leave a comment:


  • Adarion
    replied
    Originally posted by Phoronix
    - The open-source Linux graphics drivers
    Quite true. Some things already work nicely but yes, there is room for improvements. But still, there would be the blobs which should do the job until the free drivers are mature enough. Can't tell about intel, though I am not sure if intel GPUs are really made for high end gaming.



    - While Linux hardware support is now generally in good standing, there's still a variety of gaming peripherals that go without full Linux support
    Sadly yes, but this is and was always a matter of HW manufactureres. Actually, we have that e.g. Logitech problem for sooo long now. But then folks like Roccat offer better solutions. If you are on Linux and buy new HW you check before you buy.
    And - in the future HW vendors can't deny the existance of Linux any longer. Sooner or later the HAVE to care about good driver support. And good driver support means: It is in the kernel (or an adequate project like SANE, gphoto2 etc.). With a free as in freedom license.


    Other random Linux hardware support "gotchas" like kernel/driver regressions unfortunately not being too uncommon, power consumption disparity
    between releases and compared to Windows

    Partially true, yes. That has to be ironed out. But then, as soon as I set profile to "low" on my radeon, the power consumption is now equivalent (or even 1 - 1.5 W better than W32). So I guess it works on most components, but there are always some "quirks requiring" implementations, and I guess the exist to a lot in notebooks.



    Most open-source games are still disappointing in terms of their artwork
    Yeah, but hey, they are for free so I won't blame them. There are really good things, and things that are fun even without great GPU melting grafix.
    (But you might also call me old school.)

    And now compare a game that is freedom with a game that is sold for 40-50 Euros/US-Dollars. These high priced games have lots of devs working at them at a paid job whole day. (And then they are often released in a dire state, full of bugs because the publisher wanted to get it on the market.)
    So there is lack on both sides. Though some smaller price indie games seem to work quite well (HumbleIB anyone?).


    there's still a stigma attached to Linux that its users want everything for free and aren't very motivated to pay for software or support.

    LAWLOMG. Yeah, this is probably still around.
    The thing is there are soooo many Windoze people definitely NOT being correctly licensed. If you would make a worldwide license audit... omg.
    Anyway. I think there are some people who absolutely don't care and some who just actually lack the money and don't know about alternatives. Linux/BSD users are often quite aware about licenses.

    I mean, sooner or later these enterprises HAVE to make a/the first step towards Linux. If they hide behind prejudice they'll never find out.
    Also, a lot of users would like to switch to Linux if their favourite application was available there.


    One very important point IS:

    You enterprises are often TOO LATE.

    Just one example: Nero burning rom.
    a) it was a nice app
    b) Linux users wanted something like it but it was Windows only.
    ...
    time passed
    ...
    c) Linux folks made up their own programs. E.g. the nice K3B.
    d) Linux users got up the K3B train. It was and is a good ride.
    ...
    e) Somehow Nero people suddenly came to terms and ported.
    f) but now everybody was already seated with the free as in beer and free as in freedom alternative K3B. So what? No surprise sales weren't that good.

    But this is not just limited to Linux/BSD world. From a necessity alternatives arise and if that offer is better...


    This is valid for most applications that do a specific job. LibreOffice/Calligra vs. MSO, GIMP vs. Adobe PS, Inkscape vs. Corel, ...
    GAMES might be different because they "always tell a different story" (okay that is not really true but you get the point?).


    There's also an unmeasured portion of Linux desktop users that won't run any games/software if it employs Digital Rights Management.
    Yes. Maybe the reason to use Linux for them IS also or mainly to live in freedom.
    I mean, it is okay for me not to distribute my single user license. But every windows game I bought... the first way to go was gcw and crack that damn thing so I could play it without any media dongle or something. I love platforms like gog, Humble Bundle and so on.
    Just buy it, install it, play it. No messing around with CDs, DVDs, being online (activation or all time), typing in keys and so on.

    Just play and enjoy the license you just paid for. That is the way it should be. Okay, maybe read the game's manual before.


    Why did I not buy games for such a long time?
    Because they would need you to buy a new GPU all the time, they were the same stuff we had a thousand times before, they would impose digital restriction management on you, some would even install kind of rootkits or exchange the W32 CD/DVD stack, they were HORRIBLY buggy (Bethesda... Betha thesda... BETA TESTER anyone?) and then even overpriced.
    And then these UGLY gaming-console ports. No saving, no keyboard/mouse handling, just disgusting. And not to mention that most of these games were Windows only (or consoles and windows) so yeah, another reason not to buy.
    But DRM is one of my main points. I understand that some devs are concerned about unlicensed copies, yes, but DRM? I love to be without it.


    But then Desura, gog and HIB emerged, and yes, there were some full price games actually worth it (Dragon Age Origins, Witcher series). Those came with no or minimal DRM but still sold well. How comes?


    There's a shortage of highly-qualified Linux game developer veterans
    THAT IS.
    Most true.

    Not only for games. It lack Linux expertise on all ends!
    There are even some gaming design schools or something that hook up people to things like DirectX. MSDNAA and other things contribute to that problem.
    Or hardware vendors of most various types. When I ask them and mention the L-word their eyes groooooooOOOOw so huge that I fear they'll pop. OMG, the L-Word. You're the first to mention it.
    (Even when it would make sense. Like driving a machine 24/7 via RS232 (simple data exchanged) but this for a longer time, at a time where most Windows versions were still likely to crash after running for a longer period.)


    Fragmentation and differences among Linux distributions continue to be a problem for studios bringing their software to "Linux."
    Ah well. That is a bit of prejudice. We DO have a similar effect in Windows. And we DO have "fragmentation" in terms of hardware.
    But as long as all stand on the same base (Kernel/driver stack, glibc, and stuff) it should be quite okay. I am here on Gentoo for years now and if that isn't something like a kind of generic but also individual distribution...
    If one is really in doubt and has dependencies

    a) inform the user about deps he/she has to fulfill (like Windows-speek: You need at least DirectX 9 and W XP SP2 or something)
    b) or make a static build


    There's already been major game studios that have supported Linux in the past but have -- at least temporarily -- left the scene
    Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    a) Some might have been actually before their time. That is sad and true.
    b) Some ported games. Games that were recent and new 5 years ago. These very games were available for 3 Euros in the bargain bin by now and would probably already run in Wine (or on the dual boot). And then the porting people wanted 40 Euros for it. Wow. I mean, native port, yeah but... what did they expect? Me - as a student without money - spending 45 Euros for a game I have only average interest in (by game itself) but that I could obtain for 3 Euros on every corner of the street and install it either on a W32 or Wine?
    When you port it should be close to the release date of the game.

    This is like movies not being released worldwide at the same time but with 6 months delay. Of course people interested have already activated their sources (legal or not) and seen it (in the original version) because they didn't want to wait so long - or they were uncertain if it will ever be in their country.

    c) id never had the possibility to count Linux sales. The never actually sold it. You bought the Windows version and downloaded the game binary separately.

    Just my 20 cents cause it is too much blah for being 2 cents.

    Leave a comment:


  • rang501
    replied
    Originally posted by zanny View Post
    I think a larger problem with Linux as a gaming platform is that since Xorg is user space and all, and behaves like it, games will take control of the display, mouse, keyboard, and sound card and you can't get back control. Then they crash, and the only way to "close" them, is to switch TTYs and kill them from command line, and 9/10 times that will also kill the x session or render it unusable. And for gamers that is outright unacceptable. There needs to be a way to escape applications that freeze up besides killing the entire graphics stack, and games on Linux can't be allowed to take hostage hardware exclusively like the sound card, mouse, or entire display whenever they feel like.
    I have seen that happening. Mostly with wine based software where fullscreen is being used.
    In Windows when video driver crashes, driver will be reloaded and you can happily use your computer, your game probably dies but you dont need to log in again and other apps are still running. In linux if driver dies, everything dies, you can lose a lot of work.
    Open Source drivers are way too unstable. Some desktop apps can crash drivers (or xserver) way too easily.

    Leave a comment:


  • rang501
    replied
    Weird, I dont see any pulseaudio trolls here yet.

    Leave a comment:


  • zanny
    replied
    ... what games exactly have you been playing? The _Vast_ majority of games I've played have never once crashed on me.

    Obviously, anything from Bethesda is not on that crash-free list.

    Also keep in mind that many, many game crashes are actually video driver bugs. Video drivers are both the most complex and more fragile software running on your computer besides the kernel itself. There's a reason Windows moved to a micro-kernel design just for WDDM; they got sick of having their OS called crashy and fragile just because AMD/NVIDIA/Intel couldn't deliver a stable driver.
    I think a larger problem with Linux as a gaming platform is that since Xorg is user space and all, and behaves like it, games will take control of the display, mouse, keyboard, and sound card and you can't get back control. Then they crash, and the only way to "close" them, is to switch TTYs and kill them from command line, and 9/10 times that will also kill the x session or render it unusable. And for gamers that is outright unacceptable. There needs to be a way to escape applications that freeze up besides killing the entire graphics stack, and games on Linux can't be allowed to take hostage hardware exclusively like the sound card, mouse, or entire display whenever they feel like.

    Leave a comment:


  • zanny
    replied
    Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    Having recently been addicted to getting Linux working as a replacement for windows, I think it's very close, if not there as a replacement to Windows. As I'm rather new to Linux I can give some advice for what I think needs work.

    Even my TV capture card is a pain to get going. Does a Hauppauge HVR 1800 work or not on Linux? Most websites say no, but I've read posts from developers that say that 3.5 or 3.6 kernel has it working. Took and a chance and ordered it. There needs to be better communication on this.

    #2 The user interface. I have to give props to XBMC cause they know how to make an elegant UI. MythTV in comparison looks dated. Also for some reason Cinnamon is never mentioned or benchmarked here. It's by far the most complete UI for Linux. It's not a very pretty UI, as I think Unity looks more modern, but it actually works the best.

    #3 There needs to be a better way to manage these repositories. I know that Ubuntu has a way to manage them but there has to be a better way. Like putting hotlinks in websites that you can click on and have it added to your system. Cause right now I keep bookmarks for repositories I want. I also ran an update and accidentally got Wine 1.5.20, which doesn't play World of Warcraft anymore. So I gotta downgrade to 1.5.19, which is not a straight forward process.
    I'm also in the same boat (trying to get Linux working as a total Windows replacement). I even put Ubuntu 12.10 (I wish I could have put on 12.04, but the 3.2 kernel didn't support Trinity APUs and I built them a home theater PC with one) and had some experiences with tv tuners from there.

    First, here is where you find out if your tv tuner is supported. I think it is very clear what cards are supported on linuxtv, but you do have to know where to look, and myth and xbmc don't do a good job pointing to linuxtv (even though that is where all the drivers come from). I got a 1250 for my grandparents to use their Ubuntu box as a DVR, so I took some big risks trying to have an Ubuntu box running a grand new CPU (released in October) that ran two seperate X sessions (the tv and the desktop) with a usb bluetooth remote for the tv on top of the fglrx driver so my brother could play games in wine on it. It worked out better than expected.

    @2: mythtv is a pain in the ass. It broke all the time trying to run it on that new PC, the setup utility would only work through an ssh pipe. On the same machine. I have no idea why. The interface would break a lot, it changes channels really slowly, it frequently bugs out and crashes, etc. Not very plesant. They don't watch tv directly through mythv frontend or XBMC (xbmc I fear would be overkill for them and scare them off, mythtv has a simpler interface, and with a nice theme it looks good even if it runs like crap) becuase channel switching is so slow. But they do record stuff on it and I got them understanding how to switch input modes on their tv, so that worked out.

    One thing that pissed me off on that build was that using Unity, you couldn't use VNC. They bundle Vino with Ubuntu but out of the box with fglrx and Compiz it won't ever repaint the screen over VNC, and I still can't fix that bug and it is absolutely infuriating for someone who regularly wants to vnc over an ssh tunnel into that machine to fix problems they have or show them how to do stuff. It seems to be a conflict between it being a new APU, the proprietary driver, and compiz, because under Cinnamon with

    @3: I don't think dpkg was well planned out at all. I don't think any modern package system is really well planned out in general. (I don't think it is acceptable for a distro to expect users to manually compile every program not in the officially graced repositories, Arch). The problem isn't that bad on Ubuntu though, it already supports ppa: syntax, it just needs to add those links into launchpad pages and expand the web addins for Firefox to resolving ppa: links to be repositories the same way you can click an apt: link and get a package. I don't know why Canonical hasn't implemented it yet.

    Though downgrading Wine is really easy if you use playonlinux. I'll try applications in my stock wine and if it doesn't work I'll just do it the playonlinux way. The application is slow as hell (written in python) depends on an internet connection for install scripts (which are written in shell script... ugh). Do install WoW in playonlinux though, it keeps a seperate wine binary just to keep comparability. Also the odd major version numbers of wine are supposed to be development branches, even though 1.4x is never updated with backports so everyone has to use it anyway.

    Leave a comment:

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