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  • #81
    Originally posted by Pallidus View Post
    I fail to see why phoronix and many people on this forums obsess with games so much.
    Maybe You don't like, but I do like playing games. And I really don't want to have 2 operating systems on my computer, it's just not comfortable.
    Console is not an option, I use PC for my work.
    And if You ask, why I use Linux - because it gives me more power & stability.

    Yes, I'm sure they are very important to some people, the same people that will most likely have a console...
    Games are not important, games are fun, but looking on some WoW players I could get that impression.

    but even people that play in windows do you really expect them to switch OS's
    Not everyone, but I can tell You that adoption of Linux would rise if games would be available.

    because some publisher made a 3 year old title available in that OS?
    It's just beginning. All of 2500 titles available in Steam are on the list. And I really don't mind playing 3yo game if it's fun. But now I can't ( at least on Linux ).

    It's not hard for a company the size of valve to get a few people spending a couple of hours porting stuff to another OS,
    they did it for mac os x so linux shouldn't prove too difficult. This is not going to be the linux supernova you all have been waiting for.
    I think You're wrong, but We will see.

    Hell, is not call of duty modern warfare based on idtech3? that game would have probably been easier to port and sell more in linux than l4d.
    Definitely, but Valve is not owner of the CoD.

    And I understand that games attract people and linux needs more people but what's holding linux back is not the lack games, it's that both companies and the great majority of people don't take it seriously.
    The solution ATI gave me for integrated graphics issue was "to run the windows version it had been designed to use for".
    That's the problem too. But there are no games, at least those requiring from graphic drivers to be really good, so there is no need to repair/improve drivers.
    Terminal is working so what do You want :/ You need more? What for?

    A friend of mine asked me to assemble a ib i5 for him, I asked him if he wanted to check linux out and his reaction was "nah, I'll just download win7 off pirate bay", still since it didn't take much effort I installed him fedora17 and a bunch of software like libre office, gimp, vlc, chrome etc etc
    He really loved it and he kept it since that's what he wanted the i5 for.
    Good for him.

    But the time will come when he has to go the console and compile stuff and then he will probably go back to windows.
    Don't know what He is going to compile ( last time I did, was [probably] in 2004/5 ), really those days use of a console is so rare if ever needed for simple user.

    Mass adoption of linux will have to overcome many factors, one is indeed lack of applications (games included) but software/hardware integration and ease of use are much more important IMO.
    Yes, but as I said before, someone had to do first move, hardware manufacturers didn't see that kind of need ( lack of a games ), so Linux could stay in stagnation for years.
    Now there is hope. Now everything ( OK, maybe not everything ) is going in the right direction.

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    • #82
      Man JC is trolling hard, saying that Linux games are not selling when they don't have a Linux version of any game newer than 2 years. Oh yeah, Linux users don't play much QuakeLive either? Where is the plugin that I need to get the game running in Opera? Exactly.

      Regarding Linux gaming and iD history things got botched up 13 years ago:
      Quake3:Arena was an official build for Linux, supported by Loki games. When there was a slight 3-week delay in getting it into our hands, people bought the Windows SKU and "patched" it to run on Linux. The reason we didn't see any more from Id officially was that the Linux SKU only sold 200 total units because of the aforementioned conduct- we COULDN'T WAIT.
      @
      What happened with Q3:A was that Loki got the publishing deal for the Linux version of the game and the CEO did something a bit stupid like ordering 50K units to be produced (risky... I'd have ordered 10k units, maybe 15k for that going out on a limb...) and then compounding the mistake by delaying the release of the game because he wanted the pre-order special edition tins for each and every one of those 50k units- on a game that anyone could have bought the Windows version and "patched" the install with the runtime binary sets for the Linux version. In short, it wasn't piracy, but rather people buying the Windows version because they couldn't wait that caused the problems. Seriously.
      @
      and so on and so forth... slippery slope...

      Comment


      • #83
        Carmack is a great engineer but I think people give the old rusty legend to much credit, considering how they only seem to be intressted in making console game now a days, the last couple of games they made were not really big beeps on the radar anyway. The way I see it Id-software is dead in the water.

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        • #84
          Of course games alone will not make linux surpass MacOSX in terms of marketshare and get somewhere in the 20% region which would be incredible.
          But you need something to get the snowball effect going. There are no super special applications like CubaseSX or some fancy video/photo editing like native Photoshop because there aren't enough people using Linux. Why do some people not use linux? Because they need for example adobe software for it. It's a classic chicken and egg problem.

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          • #85
            Ferdinand and Sgt you guys are already running linux so having steam available will be a nice bonus but for a normal windows user it will barely register.


            " Why do some people not use linux? Because they need for example adobe software for it. It's a classic chicken and egg problem."

            Yes but you are thinking about professionals and not the masses, I've heard that argument before but the number of people that require something like premiere or photoshop is tiny.

            The vast majority of people will be happy to use whatever easy simple software they have access to. Look at what apple did with final cut x.

            Here you have a bunch of college students or small business people that have been using microsoft office all their life just because that's all they know, when you show them libreoffice and you tell them it's free they act confused.

            I can tell you that, here, in every hospital, in every ministry, in every public office from the IRS to the police they are all running windows and office or some other microsoft crap, why?

            linux is a OS for computer hobbyists and that makes my blood boil because not only is it free but it's a much better operating system with DECENT free software that it's all these public workers and 90% of people out there need.

            Instead of getting excited about some videogame the entire linux community should be strong arming, demanding, intel to get more people working on their drivers and linux support, getting behind projects like wayland or elementary and demanding their money back when getting responses like that from ati.

            Comment


            • #86
              Originally posted by Danny3 View Post
              Same here. Even though I'm a gamer for more than 5 years my first bought game was Oil Rush. Second I bought Trine 1, which is a great game, in Humble Frozen Bundle. I also plan to buy Trine 2. All this games have in common some requirements that I have.

              These are my requirements for buying games:
              1. Have a first class linux client
              This one really pisses me off, too. I just went to Bastion's and Limbo's websites. With Limbo, they don't even tell you about Linux support anywhere on the site. You can't even buy it for Linux from them. With Bastion, at the bottom is a link to a Ubuntu Software Center page requiring you to thus install Ubuntu and be locked into Ubuntu anytime you wish to play that game. Unacceptible. If someone says supporting multiple Linux distros is too difficult as their reason, that is no excuse for only offering a Ubuntu DEB package and NOT a regular binary or installer, and you can just include all libraries you need to link to with the installer package. Plus, you should be getting involved in pushing for actual Linux standards in cases where that is an issue. OpenGL is a standard, X.org is a standard, so simply help push for audio/joystick/etc standards that will not move, and/or use whatever is the biggest "standard" right now that shouldn't change anytime soon. ALSA? Pulse? OSS? AFAIK all of those have wrappers anyway, so if someone has one of them but not the other two, they can just use a wrapper? As for joysticks, I'm not sure how good the standard is, perhaps it is just fine and Linux just lacks joystick configuration utilities. Perhaps Linux needs a cohesive bundle of all its APIs, like DirectX offers with DirectInput, Direct3D, etc.

              Anyway, it looks like neither of those games will be getting my donations. A pity, as I heard they were supposedly decent games.

              Originally posted by Danny3 View Post
              2. Have a stand-alone installer (no Desura, no Steam), but being available on Desura and Steam is a plus, like Oil Rush
              I agree, but actually you're wrong about Desura. I had the same assumption too, but come to find out Desura does offer stand-alone installers, so installing and running through Desura is only optional. There is a section on the game's "profile" that links to the downloadable installer. It's silly though because they don't have downloading support in the Desura client, so when you click on it it does nothing, but if you go to the website in a normal browser (since with Steam and Desura are just canned web browsers) you can download it that way. You have the option to use Desura to buy, install, and play games though if you want. It is sort of pointless though when you can just use your favorite browser instead.

              With Steam though, sadly, I doubt this is or will be the case.

              Originally posted by Danny3 View Post
              3. No DRM, maximum that I allow is a simple serial number
              Yes, serial numbers are okayish even if they are a bit silly, since if you ever lose it you'll have to use someone else's or whatnot.

              Originally posted by Danny3 View Post
              4. No Internet connection required
              5. If it's possible LAN multiplayer (with no internet required, not Starcraft II shit)
              Lol, Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2 are a joke. Having lag in a game while playing single player is the most hilarious thing I've ever seen. Additionally, they don't even allow "spawn copies" (multiplayer-only) anymore. Blizzard has really fucked up. Maybe when they get tired of hosting their server-side services for those two games, and decide to release "patches" i.e. the server-side portions of their games so that everyone can play them without reverse-engineering the server-side bits, I might be interested in buying them, but then again who would want to donate to them after doing all that...

              Originally posted by Danny3 View Post
              6. Demo available, if not i will download an unlocked version and play it. I don't buy games that I didn't played before.
              7. Reasonable price (less than 30 $)
              I really hate games that have no demo as well. They expect you to just make a leap of faith that you'll like it, which is especially stupid since liking something is a matter of taste. At least there are lots of review sources and media, but still, demos are definitely ideal of course.

              Originally posted by Danny3 View Post
              If my requirements are not met, they should go fuck themselves, because I like my freedom and I will not buy their game.

              And what positive results Carmack wants?
              You don't have a first class linux client, linux market share is less than 5%, you don't advetise linux much but you want positive results?
              If you want positive results release a long awaited game like Doom 4 on linux first and wait 3-6 monts and then release it to Windows. You will see then.
              Exactly. id and most all game companies bury Linux. Good luck finding them even mentioning the word "Linux" anywhere that is publically tied to their company name. It is my theory that Microsoft signs agreements with them in which to be provided with DirectX and other Microsoft API documentation and testing platforms/devices, you have to agree not to endorse in any way publically non-Microsoft operating systems, or perhaps in the case of Windows + Mac they both conspire to close out Linux, I don't know, but that's the only thing that makes sense to me. All I know is Linux usually gets the boot, even when the company supports it, and I know Microsoft's marketing department is ruthless and commonly signs deals with anyone selling their products to endorse them and de-endorse competitors (the latter of which should be illegal).

              So, how does anyone expect Linux to "sell well" when that kind of behavior occurs? Not only with software development, but in hardware stores as well. Software + hardware bundling and giving discounts to vendors who don't sell competing software are the biggest rackets and by far the biggest aces Microsoft has in their deck. Secure Boot will be the next, since due to being able to sell products more cheaply to those who kiss their asses, they will be able to force computers that do not have Secure Boot to be sold at a higher cost than computers without it, etc. To put it another way, if there was a law that was passed which said all products have to be sold at the same price everywhere and to everyone, that would be the death blow to Microsoft.
              Last edited by Yfrwlf; 08-05-2012, 12:56 PM.

              Comment


              • #87
                Originally posted by Pallidus View Post
                Ferdinand and Sgt you guys are already running linux so having steam available will be a nice bonus but for a normal windows user it will barely register.


                " Why do some people not use linux? Because they need for example adobe software for it. It's a classic chicken and egg problem."

                Yes but you are thinking about professionals and not the masses, I've heard that argument before but the number of people that require something like premiere or photoshop is tiny.

                The vast majority of people will be happy to use whatever easy simple software they have access to. Look at what apple did with final cut x.

                Here you have a bunch of college students or small business people that have been using microsoft office all their life just because that's all they know, when you show them libreoffice and you tell them it's free they act confused.

                I can tell you that, here, in every hospital, in every ministry, in every public office from the IRS to the police they are all running windows and office or some other microsoft crap, why?

                linux is a OS for computer hobbyists and that makes my blood boil because not only is it free but it's a much better operating system with DECENT free software that it's all these public workers and 90% of people out there need.

                Instead of getting excited about some videogame the entire linux community should be strong arming, demanding, intel to get more people working on their drivers and linux support, getting behind projects like wayland or elementary and demanding their money back when getting responses like that from ati.
                I don't think that's really the best way to go. People don't care about technology, no matter how good it is, until it gets applied to entertainment. That's just history. IBM has been building supercomputers for decades now, and they didn't register on the public radar until they programmed one that could beat Gary Kasperov in a chess game. More recently they managed to get one to play Jeopardy.

                The point is that games are the common clay. Photoshop isn't it. Video editing isn't it. CAD crap isn't it. Those are niche markets if ever there were such creatures when compared to games. People know what they grew up with and don't like change. If you show people that you can have FUN on a Linux system without the anti-crapware overhead and things get better for everybody. The people playing games now are the ones who will be writing Photoshop's replacement a few years down the road.

                Games are not only fun, they're the best PR you can get. Because if people are going to be playing games, why not Zoidb.... uh, Linux?

                Comment


                • #88
                  Originally posted by Pallidus View Post
                  I fail to see why phoronix and many people on this forums obsess with games so much. Yes, I'm sure they are very important to some people, the same people that will most likely have a console... but even people that play in windows do you really expect them to switch OS's because some publisher made a 3 year old title available in that OS?

                  It's not hard for a company the size of valve to get a few people spending a couple of hours porting stuff to another OS, they did it for mac os x so linux shouldn't prove too difficult. This is not going to be the linux supernova you all have been waiting for.

                  Hell, is not call of duty modern warfare based on idtech3? that game would have probably been easier to port and sell more in linux than l4d.

                  And I understand that games attract people and linux needs more people but what's holding linux back is not the lack games, it's that both companies and the great majority of people don't take it seriously.
                  You're simply mistaken. It's games and some software. That's all. You probably missed Valve announcement they want to have 2500 games running on Linux? If they succeed (just the most popular games are enough) then windows can go to hell. Windows is taken seriously just, because of games and software. It's a joke OS. Rather than writing idiotic things about 3 year old games get the facts. Linux+steam+2500 games will simply kill the crap.

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                  • #89
                    Originally posted by Pallidus View Post
                    Here you have a bunch of college students or small business people that have been using microsoft office all their life just because that's all they know, when you show them libreoffice and you tell them it's free they act confused.

                    I can tell you that, here, in every hospital, in every ministry, in every public office from the IRS to the police they are all running windows and office or some other microsoft crap, why?
                    Well the City of Munich migrated totally to Open Document Standards and Linux (15.000 PCs) and they save a bunch of money every year because they don't need to get support as often as they did with windows. So it's not like it is impossible.

                    I'm using Microsoft Office 2007 on my Arch Linux for better compitablity, when others need to open my files.
                    Last edited by blackout23; 08-05-2012, 01:32 PM.

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                    • #90
                      Originally posted by kwahoo View Post
                      Doom 3 (2004) - false, only 4 players multi
                      Is what world is "4 players" now defined as single player?

                      In any event, the idTech 4 engine supports more than 4, and the other 2nd party Raven/id titles based on that tech (which you left out of your list, along with a lot of other 2nd party id titles) all support way more than 4 players. Most of those titles have Linux ports. The usage stats for said titles exist.

                      Rage (2011) - false
                      Fair enough. Rage is not on Linux at all though, so clearly any inability to collect stats there is kind of irrelevant towards checking Linux percentages.

                      Also, I wasn't actually aware that Rage wasn't multiplayer. I'm now twice as glad that I never bought it. It was actually the first id title since Raven's Heretic/Hexen series that I was actually interested in*, but the reviews pushed me away from buying it.

                      * Back when I was an "er meh gerd Lernux!" zealot like most of the other Phoronix readers, I did buy the tin special edition Loki port of Quake 3. Quake 3 was a very stupid, boring game. Which is why I find it so disappointing that the most popular games FOSS has been capable of creating are Quake 3 clones, and then only if id feeds them a premade engine to do it with. You people could at least be making a community Hexen 3 or something. :/ (Yes, I saw the non-FOSS mod team working on such a thing. I bought Doom3 just to try the mod's alpha. It was not good.)

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