Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

id Software: Linux Hasn't Produced Positive Results

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Scali
    replied
    Originally posted by Kano View Post
    When done correctly it works
    Well, there's the catch: it's not being done correctly. See gamerk2's remark.

    Originally posted by Kano View Post
    It is no rocked science to fix those problems.
    It's not that it's difficult to fix the problems, the point is that they have to be fixed at all.
    This means that you have to perform constant maintenance on your already released software in order to make it running and keep it running on all sorts of different distros, versions etc.
    This is a very different model from most other platforms, where you just release once. As already mentioned, Android 4.x can run Android 2.x applications out-of-the-box. Yes, Android 4.x has newer libraries etc, but no they are not an issue, because they are fully backward compatible. The application doesn't have to know or even care about the actual version of the library.

    Originally posted by Kano View Post
    I think those issues could be solved and a vendor could provide a faq with hints for beginners or just a forum where advanced users can help others. Usually there are always ppl out there with more experience and those often help beginners.
    Sure, in theory everything can be solved. It's just software after all. You can patch and emulate and hack indefinitely to make any system appear like any other system, and eventually make it work.
    The problem is in the realm of reality: it is too much effort, for too little gain to try and fix all these issues. So these issues should simply not exist in the first place.
    The key word here is: out-of-the-box. You just have to buy your software, click on the installer, and it should work. You should not have to go to some forum and hope that someone has the answers (which they usually don't, they do have lots of insults for you though). As long as you need forums to make linux software work, it is never going to be popular.

    Leave a comment:


  • entropy
    replied
    Originally posted by Kano View Post
    But can you tell me which game you bought you could NOT run at all with your favorite Linux distribution? I think those issues could be solved and a vendor could provide a faq with hints for beginners or just a forum where advanced users can help others. Usually there are always ppl out there with more experience and those often help beginners.
    Time to get some popcorn.

    P.S. Du Schlingel!

    Leave a comment:


  • gamerk2
    replied
    The failure of thinking here seems to be the (silly) assumption that developers will go out of their way to update their binaries when the linux devs remove some API call that their program uses from the kernel, breaking their program in the process.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kano
    replied
    @Scali

    Basically i would say binaries are no huge problem by definition. They are not statically linked but usually a lib dir is provided (or 2 in case of x64/x86 with a switching launcher). When done correctly it works on many distributions out of the box, some games might require symlinks (or just delete the libs) to get newer version. When standard names are used you can simply delete libs, if nonstandard names are used try symlinks. The main targets to do so are libopenal, libsdl or libqt. It is no rocked science to fix those problems. Of couse binaries can be done completely wrong as well, especially when they are build against a new libc6 and the target distro is older. Then you are usually lost. I found some games where "only" the installer had that problem, then i wrote my own install script. Mainly i found those issues by testing games from the Humble bundle, but i did not test those recently (i bought all bundles for the minimum value in order to be able to test when somebody has issues with Kanotix). What can be problematic is that when you use a 64 bit system and your app is 32 bit. Then you need of course 32 bit libs. Depending on your distro it can be easy or more complicated to get em working optimally. So i would like to have got of course 64 bit binaries just because of simpler ways to fix issues. When you look at id games you only got 32 bit binaries so far, this could be done better. But can you tell me which game you bought you could NOT run at all with your favorite Linux distribution? I think those issues could be solved and a vendor could provide a faq with hints for beginners or just a forum where advanced users can help others. Usually there are always ppl out there with more experience and those often help beginners.

    Leave a comment:


  • Scali
    replied
    Originally posted by ворот93 View Post
    Scali, as a man who knows could you:
    1) Outline 10 biggest hurdles of Linux that affect you most
    Well, I think we should just stick with the one hurdle that was already discussed, for now: the problem of distributing applications in binary form.

    Originally posted by ворот93 View Post
    2) Tell us what distro has done the biggest job in overcoming those hurdles?
    There's the interesting part: this hurdle cannot be overcome by a single distro, unless that single distro gets a monopoly.
    Most distros have at least some mechanism to install software in binary form (in fact, this is still the most common form I believe, with things like rpm and apt-get. Normally they will install pre-compiled binaries rather than building from source).
    But, as mentioned, this only works if the package was prepared in advance for that particular version of that particular distro.

    With the few closed-source programs I've used on linux over the years, I found that they generally listed only 2 or 3 distros that they were compatible with, and then only specific versions of those distros.
    For example, I used Kylix at one point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kylix_(software)
    Furthermore, the last release of Kylix ran under now outdated versions of Linux: Red Hat Linux 7.2, SUSE Linux [Pro.] 8.0 [Kylix, ver. 2-29, Mon Mar 25 20:01:01 2002] and Mandrake Linux 8.2.
    So if you want to use it on a different distro or a current version of the mentioned distros, you will have to hack around yourself, installing older libs, and modifying various config files. Then pray it is going to work. And if it doesn't work, you can't call their support either, because they only support the versions and distros that they listed.

    Leave a comment:


  • ворот93
    replied
    Scali, as a man who knows could you:
    1) Outline 10 biggest hurdles of Linux that affect you most
    2) Tell us what distro has done the biggest job in overcoming those hurdles?

    Leave a comment:


  • Scali
    replied
    Originally posted by Kano View Post
    And whats the problem for Rage then?
    What problem? Can you be more specific?

    Leave a comment:


  • Scali
    replied
    Originally posted by ninez View Post
    ...
    Man, you have completely lost it. All I see is you (wrongly) assuming that I don't know what I'm talking about, then jumping to all sorts of far-fetched conclusions, and just insulting me, and you keep pounding and pounding and pounding.

    Anyone can tell you that your own links don't even support your case (like that link you posted, where they literally say ASIO itself works fine, there is just a problem with some cheap hardware/poor drivers (hence WIFI issues and such). This doesn't happen on Macs because Apple doesn't ship cheap hardware and poor drivers in the first place. Can't blame Windows for cheap hardware with poor drivers).

    Leave a comment:


  • Kano
    replied
    And whats the problem for Rage then?

    Leave a comment:


  • Scali
    replied
    Originally posted by Kano View Post
    I dont think that audio latency is a huge problem on Linux. Ok, PA may not be the optimal case for everybody, but you dont need to use it on simple setups. Often sound is done via openal which is even available for Xbox (360). That abstraction layer doesn't hurt on win as well and lots of games use it. So whats problem with audio?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenAL#Games
    Games aren't the problem, they don't really need all that low-latency audio.
    Games generally work fine even with cheap onboard audio, which have quite poor latency.

    The problem is with realtime audio processing. So you input the sound of an instrument/microphone/whatever, then add effects to that, and send the processed sound back out. Low latency is required here, not only to keep the sound in the rhythm of the rest of the music, but also because it can be very disorienting if you hear your own voice/playing back with a delay.
    So it is important that the sound is sampled, processed, and sent back out to the audio device with a delay of only a few ms at most, so that you still perceive it as 'realtime'.
    This requires very small buffers and very tight responsiveness from the system.
    For example, with 44KHz CD quality, you have 44100 samples per second. A 1 ms buffer is only 44 samples. So every 44 samples you transfer back between the system and the audio device. That's quite intensive (regular task switching is generally done with 10-20 ms intervals).

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X