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id Software: Linux Hasn't Produced Positive Results

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  • #51
    Originally posted by kwahoo View Post
    The id way:
    1. Sell games with Windows-only executable
    2. Put free (as beer) Linux executable on website
    3. HOW Linux users could "pay bills"?

    The Valve way:
    1. Sell games with Steamplay support - user (Mac/Windows/Linux) pays only once
    2. Check plaftorm statistics

    PS TTimo (only Linux-friendly man) doesn't work in id anymore...
    THIS is a very important point that needs to be underlined, circled, highlighted, bold faced, and put in BIG FONT and then shoved down ID's software's inbox... I'm sure according to ID software, 100% of their sales is Windows but that's only because they forced Linux users to buy the Windows product and then find-out-for-themselves how to get the linux binaries installed for ID Software's horrendously slow FTP server.

    I think it's pretty clear that from the Humble Bundle sales and how popular games like Heroes of Newerth, oilrush, etc. are.. That there is *plenty* of demand for games on Linux..

    I think Carmack is just a little resentful because his games haven't been selling very well since Doom III's failure. I'd also mention that the modifications to the games that ID Software shipped (Quake 3 Modifications, Enemy Territory, etc.) ended up being MUCH more popular than the original games themselves..

    I remember years ago when I was working on a team doing modifications to Quake 3 Arena, we had a decent handful of linux users. Some of which were making source code contributions to the mod which makes those users 100x more valuable than the Windows users.

    I'm still surprised it was Carmack that made those comments.. He was such a cool dude back in the day, but not so much anymore..

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    • #52
      Originally posted by Yfrwlf View Post
      I will never buy a game from the Ubuntu Software Center, even though I usually run Ubuntu, because they don't give you a cross-distro application. Application freedom, the freedom to run your games and other programs on any Linux distro you want, is a requirement for me as I refuse to be bound to a proprietary Linux OS. If they provide straight-up normal binaries or cross-distro installers, I pay. Desura has provided those things with Oil Rush and Trine 2, so I had no problem paying for those games.
      Just an FYI... All the games that I bought through the Ubuntu Software Center was very easy to install on my Debian laptop. cp -r and you're done... The games are *NOT* loaded with DRM and they are very easy to burn to CD or archive any way you like.. Also, the games are redownloadable, so if you need HD space on your laptop, you can just delete it and download it again later.

      I for one, like the Ubuntu Software Center.. It certainly isn't a steam replacement, but it could very well have become one someday if Valve had continued to ignore Linux.

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      • #53
        Originally posted by Sidicas View Post
        Just an FYI... All the games that I bought through the Ubuntu Software Center was very easy to install on my Debian laptop. cp -r and you're done... The games are *NOT* loaded with DRM and they are very easy to burn to CD or archive any way you like.. Also, the games are redownloadable, so if you need HD space on your laptop, you can just delete it and download it again later.

        I for one, like the Ubuntu Software Center.. It certainly isn't a steam replacement, but it could very well have become one someday if Valve had continued to ignore Linux.
        My only gripe with Software Center is that it doesn't appear to be version specific, or at least the apps aren't. Too often you can download something that just doesn't work with the current point release. I think it could improve with a better user feedback model (more than just a primitive star rating), and maybe a bit of hardware config snooping. No stealing personal info, just a user opt-in for sharing system specs to help provide developers with more information on what works and what doesn't. Eventually, with such feedback, software center could better filter results, only showing you what works with your specs. Software Center needs to be very reliable before purchases make more sense.

        As for the comment about how Linux users are cheap. I've always been cheap with software. When I had a Mac, I used mostly free Apps. For Windows, I use Office 2000 and Paint Shop Pro 9. I don't want to upgrade to the newest Office because of Ribbon, and Paint Shop Pros turned into phone-home-ware shortly after v9. I'll buy games, but not the $60 new releases.

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        • #54
          Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post

          The last one is important because there is lots of people still using Windows XP, and they don't care about upgrading to Windows 8 or bothering with Linux. They have no reason to.
          Of course they do.. The majority of Windows games on the market now are OpenGL 4.X / DirectX 11... Neither of which is supported by XP, or open source Linux at this time.. That's why most serious gamers are running Windows 7 now.... and I think Gabe is right that Windows 8 will basically be the next Vista which brings a LOT of opportunity.. The last time Vista was released, the market share of Mac OS X went through the f-ing roof.. I remember those "allow or deny" apple commercials and such making fun of just how horrible Vista was at the time...

          Originally posted by bug77 View Post
          Gee, could this lukewarm reception have anything to do with the fact that all id games since Quake2 and maybe Quake3, I don't know, sucked? Imho, anything past Quake3 was little more than a tech demo.
          Agreed..
          Last edited by Sidicas; 08-04-2012, 10:04 PM.

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          • #55
            Originally posted by Sidicas View Post
            The majority of Windows games on the market now are OpenGL 4.X / DirectX 11... Neither of which is supported by XP, or open source Linux at this time...
            OpenGL 4.x is supported under Windows XP Of course Linux open source drivers doesn't support this API at this time, but for an incoming linux gamers (I hope) closed source drivers will be better choice, because 3D performance on FGLRX and ForceWare is really good (close the same as on Windows). I hope that ID will be back with full Linux support for their games soon. If they'll release Rage for Linux I'll buy this game, because similar to others users I don't want to play in this game on wine.

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            • #56
              Originally posted by Sidicas View Post
              Of course they do.. The majority of Windows games on the market now are OpenGL 4.X / DirectX 11... Neither of which is supported by XP, or open source Linux at this time.. That's why most serious gamers are running Windows 7 now.... and I think Gabe is right that Windows 8 will basically be the next Vista which brings a LOT of opportunity.. The last time Vista was released, the market share of Mac OS X went through the f-ing roof.. I remember those "allow or deny" apple commercials and such making fun of just how horrible Vista was at the time...
              Majority of games will work fine on DX9c hardware. Very few people know what DX10 or DX11 brings in terms of graphics. I actually don't know much about what this brings. Best I can figure is that DX10 brings better performance and DX11 brings tessellation. Nearly all games though have the ability to default to DX9, which works perfectly well in Windows XP. Tessellation is a rarely found feature found in modern games. Since game consoles are stuck using older hardware, most games on PC won't really go past DX9 level of graphics.

              Though enthusiasts will go through the trouble to get Windows 7 and turn on those fancy graphic features. Those same people will also go through the trouble to install Linux, but they need good reasons. Currently the only way to run games on Linux is to do it through WINE, in which you take a heavy hit in performance. OpenGL games are rare as well.

              Those same enthusiasts don't like Windows 8. Specifically because of the UI. They're the crowd that Ubuntu and other distros should be aiming at. If they start to migrate, they'll get their friends and family to as well. Get the right enthusiasts and you'll even get people who'll work on those graphic drivers. Back in the day a lot of people used to tweak Nvidia's and ATI's graphic drivers on Windows, and that all went down the drain after Vista. Could you imagine what those people would do with open source drivers?

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              • #57
                From everything I've read, id did us a favor by not giving us a port of Rage.

                id just barely measures as a blip on the screen these days, but they get a lot of media attention because of their past history.

                Don't worry about Doom 4. We'll have a whole new Valve game to play with by then... and it'll probably be 10x better than anything id makes, sadly.

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                • #58
                  Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
                  Bad timing on their part as the Linux gaming scene is just starting to move.

                  Does anyone care about Quake franchise?
                  Yes, actually. Despite its faults, Quake 3/Quake Live is still the best competitive FPS game available. You are right in that iD don't make great single player games, but their multiplayer efforts have always been the best around. And until something better comes along, I'm going to continue playing Quake Live, and on Linux.

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                  • #59
                    I can see JC's point since they seem to have lost their lone Linux dev.

                    The problem for them is that there wasn't any good way to create a cross-distro installer (deb, rpm, tgz, sh, etc.) back when they made their Linux releases. With Steam and Desura/Desurium that will change and hopefully ID will try again. In addition, there is a payment system integrated with these distribution systems that didn't exist before. They can also offer demos (Desura/Desurium already do).

                    I've owned Id titles since CW3D and was happy to find Linux versions. I knew the problem of buying M$ media and using a Linux binary regarding stats when I mostly play offline. This is the same problem for any other developer, like Epic (UT2004). I wonder how the HiB developers keep track of their game usage by platform. They can see it in sales but for an individual game it's not as obvious unless it has an online component.

                    One problem with online multiplayer is that Linux versions of Id games are either old or not popular enough to form a stable player base. With several of their games (and multiplayer-specifc mods also) I tried many servers that were either closed or only had a few bots running around, even after the games were open sourced and had active F/OSS developers and mods. If they don't achieve critical mass then online multiplayer is rather lonely.

                    This is a problem for F/OSS games also. A few like Tremulus or Battle for Wesnoth achieved critical mass but many others haven't. Version mismatches between servers and various clients don't help because they fragment the player base even more. On Windows, a gamer just installs the latest EXE. On Linux, a gamer has to figure out how to compile it themselves or for someone to do it for them (PPA, etc.). Linux distros don't provide the same immediate satisfaction as Windows when it comes to games (same as for malware writers).

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                    • #60
                      Originally posted by Kano View Post
                      Basically i can understand JC, but i dont see it so negative. First of all with the right gfx card you can play Rage with wine. It does not work with Intel onboard and it did not work with fglrx and my hd 5670, but worked even with my old nv 8800 gts 512.
                      When you check this? On winehq there is reports about Catalyst 11.8 and Catalyst 12.4. According to this reports Rage have Gold status with fglrx too.
                      Originally posted by jhansonxi View Post
                      The problem for them is that there wasn't any good way to create a cross-distro installer (deb, rpm, tgz, sh, etc.) back when they made their Linux releases.
                      What stopping him from using Open Build Service?
                      Originally posted by jhansonxi View Post
                      With Steam and Desura/Desurium that will change and hopefully ID will try again.
                      They not. For example all id games not available in Steam for MacOS.

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