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What Should Valve Do For Linux & Open-Source?

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  • #81
    I am with @Prince781 here. Valve's main focus should be a functioning client and a decent selection of games.

    Active promotion of linux/ubuntu platform on steam with special offers and events would be great too, but that is icing on the cake.

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    • #82
      VALVE 1000 Hz Ubuntu kernel - optimized for gaming -

      Originally posted by plonoma View Post
      - make their software work on Linux, many linux flavors
      - maintain it, make sure it keeps working
      - try to squash bugs in important drivers (graphics and audio) and infrastructure software that have an impact on the software from Valve
      - add platform icons in steam so people can see if their games will work on Windows, Mac, Linux,...
      - work with Canonical to optimize (Unity) and fix (PulseAudio) things
      - Buy and burn the ST3C patents
      I agree that ST3C patents are the key for better FOSS drivers, perhaps a hybrid modular driver, with a ST3C closed part, and the other FOSS part would be a good and cheaper solution.

      But I think what VALVE must do FIRST is a Ubuntu kernel with Sabayon settings - 100 Hz Ubuntu kernel settings vs 1000 Hz Sabayon kernel settings - and even more optimized for games if it is possible. Ubuntu has a low latency kernel for multimedia editing Ubuntu Studio or
      sudo apt-get install linux-headers-lowlatency
      sudo apt-get install linux-lowlatency
      sudo update-grub

      And an automatic way to unload - reload DMs when you play full screen games, not depending the performance of the DM you use.

      ATI opengl drivers have better or similar performance under MS WOS - 300 Hz kernel - and Ubuntu, even better with Sabayon.
      I would like to see OpenGL and other benchmarks between Sabayon and Ubuntu, and ubuntu Low latency, and even others as ARCH and SUSE Michael please it is a great moment to do it.

      Nvidia MS WOS drivers for Open GL are better in MS WOS than in Ubuntu, but perhaps similar with Sabayon.

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      • #83
        Originally posted by asdx
        • Buy the S3TC patents and burn it with fire.
        • Help improve Mesa, Wayland and the FOSS in-kernel/in-tree drivers (Nouveau, Radeon, Intel, etc).


        That's the two things that are coming to my mind right now. Thanks so much Valve and Michael.
        And make their games playable with Open Source drivers.

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        • #84
          Originally posted by mitcoes View Post
          But I think what VALVE must do FIRST is a Ubuntu kernel with Sabayon settings - 100 Hz Ubuntu kernel settings vs 1000 Hz Sabayon kernel settings - and even more optimized for games if it is possible.
          Where did you take that number from? Default is 250Hz in Ubuntu.

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          • #85
            The best thing Valve can do for Linux is to increase the market interest in this operating system. And I'm talking not about the game market, but the hardware vendor market. A good gaming platform can be a very good starting point if it is successful. In my opinion the goal is always the same and it is not dominate the PC market (it would be nice indeed, but it is not a priority at all in my opinion): have a good diffusion of pc with linux preinstalled in PC stores. And I don't mean second class PC or netbooks. I mean the whole range, from netbooks to the best workstations. This makes hardware vendor better support the OS and this again increase the diffusion.

            So if Valve is going to help here, thank you very much! I really hope you will, and I wish you my best luck. Given I'm a steam user (I play Skyrim just to say, on windows sadly), I'm more than happy to see a Steam linux client.

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            • #86
              @kraftman

              that 250 hz default is now because i reported that 100 hz was used for 64 bit and 250 for 32 bit. And i did not want to update my patch all the time. Well after that they put the 250 hz in a global config file not per arch...

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              • #87
                I think the best thing you (Valve) can do for Linux & Open Source is...
                • #1, Easily: Show the industry by example that you are making success on the platform.
                • #2: Communicate your frustrations and difficulties developing on the platform, and propose solutions.
                • #3: Keep an open ear... when you are the topic, don't remain silent!


                The rest, like hiring developers to work on open source drivers, etc... is well appreciated. Linux users and developers want Valve to succeed here... If they tell us what they need to succeed, I am sure we'll do our absolute best to deliver.

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                • #88
                  Originally posted by jvillain View Post
                  The other thing that will happen is people who other wise don't have the skill to debug some thing as complex as the video stack start installing the blobs and their systems become useless or they get frustrated because it doesn't work at all or it just leaves their machines buggy
                  are you serious?

                  Any company who wants to do anything with linux has to go full open-source or not do linux at all. The linux community is the most unfriendly community out there for companies.

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                  • #89
                    Originally posted by AJSB View Post
                    The ones that consider that a windows binary wrapped around in WINE is a good idea, you are delusional .

                    I use WINE for many years (and contributed to bug reports) and no matter the great progresses, it will be ALWAYS a crouch.

                    There clearly performance issues that will NEVER be solved, compatibility issues, installation issues, audio issues, and graphical issues....

                    I NEVER saw a game (except maybe really old) that perform same EXACT way than in Windows.

                    WINE is a good option....as in :last resort to play a game in LINUX.

                    Any dev to go with it to make a Linux "compatible" game is doomed to fail as for sales goes.
                    I have had games work in wine that no longer work with windows. Some old Windows 98 games my daughter dug up and wanted to play...

                    The performance issues are 2 fold. Drivers for Linux aren't as polished and AFAIK don't have the same game optimizations that it's Windows counterpart does.
                    The second part being you do have to have extra work for the machine to translate as it goes which on a modern system this all equates to ~ a 15% performance penalty.

                    Linux users with machines capable of knocking out 100+ FPS on new titles, full HD, on a Windows install should have expectable/playable Wine performance assuming the game works with Wine.

                    Is Wine evil? Yeah it's a double edge sword. Yet, if companies like Valve step up and wrap their catalog, updating Wine for issues along the way, Linux/Mac users win out 2 fold. Native games and the rest of the catalog being official maintained with Wine so we can still play and can expect smooth gameplay. Whats wrong with having your cake and icing too?

                    Originally posted by boast View Post
                    are you serious?

                    Any company who wants to do anything with linux has to go full open-source or not do linux at all. The linux community is the most unfriendly community out there for companies.
                    IDK if that's true. All platforms have eccentric people who gripe,wine and flame over silly or serious alike. Windows and Mac users can act very entitled and flame like crazy if needed (e.g. Blizzards boards even after a planned outage screaming for fixes). You know what their are also a lot more of them to deal with lol.
                    Last edited by nightmarex; 18 July 2012, 10:36 AM. Reason: add

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                    • #90
                      Originally posted by nightmarex View Post
                      I have had games work in wine that no longer work with windows. Some old Windows 98 games my daughter dug up and wanted to play...

                      The performance issues are 2 fold. Drivers for Linux aren't as polished and AFAIK don't have the same game optimizations that it's Windows counterpart does.
                      The second part being you do have to have extra work for the machine to translate as it goes which on a modern system this all equates to ~ a 15% performance penalty.

                      Linux users with machines capable of knocking out 100+ FPS on new titles, full HD, on a Windows install should have expectable/playable Wine performance assuming the game works with Wine.

                      Is Wine evil? Yeah it's a double edge sword. Yet, if companies like Valve step up and wrap their catalog, updating Wine for issues along the way, Linux/Mac users win out 2 fold. Native games and the rest of the catalog being official maintained with Wine so we can still play and can expect smooth gameplay. Whats wrong with having your cake and icing too?.
                      No one said that WINE is evil. It is not evil, it is extremely useful. That said, it should not be treated as something it is not: a platform to target in of itself.

                      Linux will never be a gaming platform unless we have games. But it will also never be a real gaming platform unless we have actual Linux games. If we allow half-measures now we are simply trading in long term growth for short term gain, and that can only hurt us in the long run. We have a clean slate here and we need to build on it the right way. That is why we need to press our case. Linux could become a great gaming platform - but it has to be a Linux gaming platform. Not some weird hybrid.

                      I should also point out that I have actually had a lot of bad luck running older titles through WINE. The only games that have run really well for me are 1/3 native anyway - games that heavily use OpenGL and other Linux friendly APIs. I have never had any miracles. I actually wish WINE showed more interest in getting older titles to work, as for me, it has often been hit or miss.

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