Gaming Benchmarks: Windows 7 vs. Ubuntu Linux

[curfew]

Nope. Compiz can unredirect fullscreen apps. Worst thing here is that you seem to think that you even know what you're talking about :P

http://wiki.compiz.org/GeneralOptions#General

The worst thing is me knowing something about things and being the only one around, having to confront all of you people...

"Unredirect fullscreen windows" is a completely different thing. Both technically and performance-wise. Just to shut you up, I benchmarked all the three different setup with Nexuiz's timedemo. First Compiz without unredirection, then Compiz with unredirection enabled and lastly with an uncomposited desktop using Metacity window manager.

Results: (secs -- fps min / avg / max)
Compiz: 54 -- 20 / 37 / 73
Compiz + UFW: 49 -- 22 / 42 / 82
Uncomposited: 41 -- 28 / 50 / 102

(All tests were ran twice, the results being practically identical.)

There's a huge boost in turning off the compositing. "Unredirect full screen windows" gives less than 50 % of the lost performance back.

[curfew]

Nope. Compiz can unredirect fullscreen apps. Worst thing here is that you seem to think that you even know what you're talking about :P

http://wiki.compiz.org/GeneralOptions#General

The worst thing is me knowing something about things and being the only one around, having to confront all of you people...

"Unredirect fullscreen windows" is a completely different thing. Both technically and performance-wise. Just to shut you up, I benchmarked all the three different setup with Nexuiz's timedemo. First Compiz without unredirection, then Compiz with unredirection enabled and lastly with an uncomposited desktop using Metacity window manager.

Results: (secs -- fps min / avg / max)
Compiz: 54 -- 20 / 37 / 73
Compiz + UFW: 49 -- 22 / 42 / 82
Uncomposited: 41 -- 28 / 50 / 102

(All tests were ran twice, the results being practically identical.)

There's a huge boost in turning off the compositing. "Unredirect full screen windows" gives less than 50 % of the lost performance back.

as already above stated is compiz able to disable compositing. (the 0.9 version can even fully handle windowmanaging without compositing)

Compiz 0.9 is a so-called "preview release" meaning it's still beta, and to my knowledge will be for at least the next 6-12 months. It's a pseudo stable release just like KDE 4.0.0 was in the past. And it isn't even shipped with Ubuntu 10.04 so this is completely offtopic.

[mirza]

They didn't have "custom" installations of the drivers. They had normal installations of the drivers as recommended by NVidia.

Lets just say that Windows 7 has single measurable 3D performance value while in Ubuntu you have 2 different modes that are easily switchable using radio button. It is correct to present both modes of Ubuntu performance. Situation is somewhat comparable to Windows 7 XP mode, except that XP mode is unlikely to be any faster then "native" Win7 mode (actually it is probably slower), so there is no great reason for testing it.

[curfew]

Ubuntu doesn't have compositing enabled with the default Nvidia (Nouveau) configuration. It's only enabled after the user explicitly installs a custom driver and enables it. Therefore I find it ridiculous to state that disabling this custom-enabled compositing would skew the benchmarks.

With a stock configuration there wouldn't even be a benchmark because Nouveau doesn't do 3D that well (not with most hardware, at least). Maybe Michael should stick to that, just to be completely fair.

[mtippett]

It is not unfair if Ubuntu ships with Compositing enabled, which they do. Just because they have not implemented a disable on demand feature as Windows has speaks more to Microsoft's tuning of their OS for a wider audience than Ubuntu.

Again, if this is a huge issue, file a bug report with Ubuntu. Until Ubuntu changes their policy, Michael won't (and shouldn't) touch the setting in his benchmarks.

I agree with this. To disable compositing, the you have to click through about 3 or 4 layers (and it isn't even called compositing in the configuration too). This has low discoverability, and consequently you should consider it the way that the majority (read someone who tries out gaming casually and use Linux casually) of people will experience apps. I'd imagine that under Windows turning of DWM (Win7's compositor) is just as arcane and twisted process.

Tweakers exist on both sides of the fence, you can have tweaked performance and stock performance.

Again, I'd challenge people to create a new forum thread, and define the configuration that you'd like to see benched. Now the key part here is that you need to reach consensus on how the system should be configured. Within that thread people who are interested need to settle on all the tweaks that would be needed to get the best performance. Write it up, and I am sure that Michael would run the benchmarks again.

Matthew

[curfew]

I'm almost offended by the fact you consider most of the Linux users as retards who wouldn't turn off compositing just because the OS doesn't do it for them automaticly. Neither does Windows always turn off Aero upon running a 3D application (game). Then you just have to do it manually, simple as that.

What I'd like to see less around here is the Gnome-like philosophy of "our users are idiots".

[curfew]

You're also making up a FUD storm with these false benchmarks and not telling people the tests are actually lame jokes. The first two or three pages consist of people telling how Linux suxzorz in gaming and how the Nvidia drivers suck on Linux for to the fact they're actually "90-per cent Windows drivers". Just imagine those poor folks who only read the story and then link it around the web without ever knowing the lies behind them.

[mtippett]

I'm almost offended by the fact you consider most of the Linux users as retards who wouldn't turn off compositing just because the OS doesn't do it for them automaticly. Neither does Windows always turn off Aero upon running a 3D application (game). Then you just have to do it manually, simple as that.

What I'd like to see less around here is the Gnome-like philosophy of "our users are idiots".

It has nothing to do with "idiots", "automatic" or anything like that. It is the concept of discoverability in UI design.

http://www.scottberkun.com/essays/26-the-myth-of-discoverability/

Is a good reference to think about.

Aero is not turned off, however the fullscreen DX11 and OGL applications do direct writing to the framebuffer and page flipping to get maximal performance. This is the unredirect full screen apps statements made within the thread. The fact that there is a compositor in the background entails some overhead. Under Windows it was mandated, under Linux it kind of evolved over time (with lots of google results documenting what people have experienced and the workaround they put in place).

Matthew

[liam]

I don't recall hearing of this before.

Windows aren't faster than Linux in OGL games, simply the combination Ubuntu/Nvidia is problematic for some reason.
See for example here http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...buntu910&num=2
I have repeated this again and again but Michael doesn't want to throw a second distro in the benches. With a second distro in play, for every result we will know whether is Linux's or distro's fault.

Thanks for the info!
It's not too surprising, I suppose, since they like to run odd combinations of kernel and Xorg, recently, that something would go amiss. I really with they would stick with the latest kernels instead of this backporting non-sense...

Best/Liam

[liam]

It did (does?) if you use the default Windows driver.

Windows never had to convert OpenGL to D3D.
Every OpenGL activity is care of the video card driver. ATi and Nvidia have their fully optimized OpenGL drivers that directly call the hardware, instead less important video chip vendors are used to do OpenGL wrapping to D3D (like SiS with their integrated video cards).

With Vista and 7 things changed to kill OpenGL, but I think video chip vendors have found the way long time ago to avoid stupid Microsoft impositions.

From http://www.opengl.org/wiki/Getting_started

Without drivers, you will default to a software version of OpenGL 1.1 (on Win98, ME, and 2000), a Direct3D wrapper that supports OpenGL 1.1 (WinXP), or a Direct3D wrapper that supports OpenGL 1.4 (Windows Vista and above).

If that is incorrect perhaps you could change the page?

Best/Liam