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  • Svartalf
    replied
    Originally posted by Yfrwlf View Post
    ...like this problem. Linux is not the superior gaming platform in some ways, but is in other ways. I hope these get addressed.
    I don't know if you're going to be honestly happy with anything. Many of the "lacks" are no better than under Windows- they just look like they exist because it's "different" than on Windows in several ways.

    1) A GUI for terminating games which lock up. Switching VTs is not a solution for those who don't know the command line, i.e. normal computer users. System Monitor popping up as just another window may not be good enough if the program won't minimize. The Windows solution is to overlay the controls over the entire screen, over whatever is there regardless of if it's full screen or not. But perhaps it's just an issue with control-alt-delete not reaching the system and instead the game absorbing the keystroke, not sure.
    As if Windows has any better in all honesty. I've wedged up boxes such that Ctrl-Alt-Del did no good on Windows. I've had spontaneous reboots doing code development over time in XP (pretty impressive, really... ). I think you will find, if your HONEST about it, that this is the case and if you don't have ctrl-alt-backspace shut off, that it's the closest thing to what you're looking for under Linux.

    2) Standardized installation/removal system. Installers don't provide a way for removal many times, and don't integrate with the program manager to allow users to remove (or install) them the same way they do other packages. Packages themselves are not standardized, but could be. Every Linux project could push for standard packages of their programs, or the package system could be told where to get the special package from, there's just a lot of solutions for every issue here but few seem to care because most of the developers are stuck in the "oh they can just compile it" mindset, not giving a damn about binaries or normal computer users who can't compile. I feel this is the largest issue right now as I don't want a proprietary "appliance", I want standards, and all Linux users would appreciate that freedom.
    The only computing environments that actually HAVE this sort of thing that you allude to is the Consoles right at the moment. Windows sure as hell doesn't have a single unified thing like you mention. MacOS doesn't either. Many installers, no consistent uninstall.

    Now as for Linux... If you use the distribution packaging system (some brave souls at studios do this right at the moment... ) you have uninstall pretty much handled. If you use Loki/LGP Install, you have a consistent, clean uninstall. If you use MojoInstaller, it's the same story, as it is with InstallJammer, BitRock, and a host of other binary installers. Only Autopackage really doesn't provide good clean uninstall capabilities.

    3) Monolithic kernel making any graphics glitches fatal. Yes, the process of the way Linux is debugged and how tight things are may help with bugs, but it also means graphics issues means that I have to hit the reset button when a game has graphics issues instead of just the game itself crashing or the kernel killing it. Whatever happened to Linux being uncrashable? Where are the failsafe mechanisms to prevent it, to restart a hosed graphics driver, or whatever it takes to deal with this kind of crashing? Better graphics drivers is one thing but Linux should be more bulletproof than to rely on that.
    I've not seen this. More to the point, I would love to know what your credentials are that you can make this sort of claim and can you provide examples thereof. If you're not a device driver developer, kernel level code developer, or a game developer, I would strongly hesitate to take your word for this out of hand without any proof thereof- and if you're not and don't have proof, I would advise refraining from making remarks like this as it weakens any position you might think you have to the point of near irrelevance.

    We won't get into what Microsoft's answer does for things. And before you remark that I don't know about that or I've got bias...I used to work for one of the Big Two and I do know that it's not all roses there either- and people still develop for that platform.

    4) Audio problems. Galore. But oh, Pulse Audio is the BEST EVAR. Maybe it is the whole Linux audio system though, but regardless, there's a lot of problems here. Things are slowly getting a bit better though at least.
    Sound problems are somewhat due to Pulse, yes. I think Pulse and some of the other "servers" are going in a direction that causes issues, yes. However, are the the reason studios are not doing work or is that just another excuse and some gripe you're pulling out of thin air?

    Considering that FMOD, IrrKlang, Miles, OpenAL, SDL/SDL_mixer all work largely okay once you've found what the right config is, and then just largely work on all systems once you do, I have difficulty accepting your remarks as being as big a problem as you're making it out to be- much like your graphics remarks.

    5) Lag, with everything. Audio lag, mouse lag, you name it, Linux has always had this problem. Some of you may be used to it by now, but try running a Windows game sometime to remind yourself of the tight responsiveness that Linux is missing. I don't need to tell anyone how horrible this is for gaming. Luckily, I think this may be improving as well, but it's still noticeable in many games. In any case, Linux audio is still really lacking in basic things. In another year, I think many of these will be solved though, hopefully.
    "Tight responsiveness"...heh... I won't remark on that. You just told several game devs that this isn't there on Linux.

    6) Gaming while multitasking. You can't. Disk I/O kills everything else. Try installing a program while gaming sometime. Linux is very bad at multitasking, or doing it in a way that desktop users need, i.e. not completely freezing up everything else and dedicating every CPU cycle to an I/O process.
    Interesting that I don't seem to have this problem in the large, unless I'm **HAMMERING** the disk with I/O- and then Windows would have similar or WORSE problems. More to the point, the only places I've been able to hammer a machine that hard that way is at the current and one previous day-job where I was dealing with massive levels of I/O from things like OC3 stock feeds.

    Currently, Windows offers solutions to all these issues, while Linux still has a ways to go. This is very bad. While Windows is not perfect with some of these things, in general it's in a lot better shape than Linux is.
    Actually, Windows DOESN'T have solutions for all of these issues.

    Which Installer? There's dozens- and they don't all clean up after themselves nicely.

    Sound subsystem? DirectSound? OpenAL? Others?

    Graphics? Heh...don't kid yourself.

    Lag? There's lag in Windows too. You might just be used to it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dragonlord
    replied
    Originally posted by Dragonix View Post
    Interesting.. I've never encounterd a not working offline mode. Never heard of anybody with such problems. Only Dragonload encounters problems with steam...

    I guess he used steam exactly once, 6 years ago (or so..)...
    Nope, I'm not the only with this problem, it's existing a lot. And no, I am forced to use steam since it first came out so don't write me off as somebody "having no clue".

    Leave a comment:


  • Dragonix
    replied
    Originally posted by Remco View Post
    I guess you found a bug!
    Interesting.. I've never encounterd a not working offline mode. Never heard of anybody with such problems. Only Dragonload encounters problems with steam...

    I guess he used steam exactly once, 6 years ago (or so..)...

    Leave a comment:


  • Remco
    replied
    Originally posted by Dragonlord View Post
    Guess what, I've stored the password all times since I don't like entering passwords. Guess what, offline play is not working BECAUSE THERE IS NO FUCKING INTERNET CONNECTION!
    I guess you found a bug!

    Leave a comment:


  • Dragonlord
    replied
    Originally posted by dopehouse View Post
    Just for the records, the Save password option realizes the offline play function. Without saving the password, the offline mode is not available, when you start Steam and it couldn't phone home.

    PS: I use this option very frequently and it works just fine with all Valve games.
    Guess what, I've stored the password all times since I don't like entering passwords. Guess what, offline play is not working BECAUSE THERE IS NO FUCKING INTERNET CONNECTION!

    Leave a comment:


  • dopehouse
    replied
    Originally posted by Dragonlord View Post
    By the way. Saving a password has NOTHING to do with having to stay online to play. It's just a convenience to not having to enter the password each time a connection is made.
    Just for the records, the Save password option realizes the offline play function. Without saving the password, the offline mode is not available, when you start Steam and it couldn't phone home.

    PS: I use this option very frequently and it works just fine with all Valve games.

    Leave a comment:


  • unix_epoch
    replied
    Originally posted by deanjo View Post
    And there are a lot of Lan parties held in rural areas now isn't there?
    Yes, there are. Back before we had broadband out here, I used a Linux PC to share a 28.8 modem with my friends at our LAN parties. When you've got no fast Internet and no public places to hang out, what do you do? LAN party.

    Leave a comment:


  • curaga
    replied
    Having had to use Windows today (heh, after a very long time), I tried to look for the interactivity, since it's been mentioned around here so often. Under heavy load I noticed exactly one difference to linux - the mouse continued to move fluidly.

    On the other hand, this was of absolutely no use, since the windows stopped redrawing and responding to events.

    That is, a tie.

    Leave a comment:


  • Melcar
    replied
    Originally posted by Yfrwlf View Post

    1) A GUI for terminating games which lock up. Switching VTs is not a solution for those who don't know the command line, i.e. normal computer users. System Monitor popping up as just another window may not be good enough if the program won't minimize. The Windows solution is to overlay the controls over the entire screen, over whatever is there regardless of if it's full screen or not. But perhaps it's just an issue with control-alt-delete not reaching the system and instead the game absorbing the keystroke, not sure.
    I would like that so much. Most of the time I dread running games fullscreen because of it. Switching VT can be clunky at times, and if you have something like fglrx, can outright kill your session.

    2) Standardized installation/removal system. Installers don't provide a way for removal many times, and don't integrate with the program manager to allow users to remove (or install) them the same way they do other packages. Packages themselves are not standardized, but could be. Every Linux project could push for standard packages of their programs, or the package system could be told where to get the special package from, there's just a lot of solutions for every issue here but few seem to care because most of the developers are stuck in the "oh they can just compile it" mindset, not giving a damn about binaries or normal computer users who can't compile. I feel this is the largest issue right now as I don't want a proprietary "appliance", I want standards, and all Linux users would appreciate that freedom.
    There are already many package systems out there, but yeah, no one seems to agree on what to use (or even bother using them). I frankly don't care what is used in the end, as long as it's an easy and transparent process.

    3) Monolithic kernel making any graphics glitches fatal. Yes, the process of the way Linux is debugged and how tight things are may help with bugs, but it also means graphics issues means that I have to hit the reset button when a game has graphics issues instead of just the game itself crashing or the kernel killing it. Whatever happened to Linux being uncrashable? Where are the failsafe mechanisms to prevent it, to restart a hosed graphics driver, or whatever it takes to deal with this kind of crashing? Better graphics drivers is one thing but Linux should be more bulletproof than to rely on that.
    Need to get back on this latter, but would be interesting to see what others think or what workarounds are available.
    4) Audio problems. Galore. But oh, Pulse Audio is the BEST EVAR. Maybe it is the whole Linux audio system though, but regardless, there's a lot of problems here. Things are slowly getting a bit better though at least.
    PA isn't that bad anymore. The problem is when you use programs whose developers for one reason or another refuse to provide proper support for PA. Most of the time the solution given is to "remove PA", which on most modern distro means screwing up your sound system if you're not careful.
    5) Lag, with everything. Audio lag, mouse lag, you name it, Linux has always had this problem. Some of you may be used to it by now, but try running a Windows game sometime to remind yourself of the tight responsiveness that Linux is missing. I don't need to tell anyone how horrible this is for gaming. Luckily, I think this may be improving as well, but it's still noticeable in many games. In any case, Linux audio is still really lacking in basic things. In another year, I think many of these will be solved though, hopefully.
    I honestly have not experienced this. I constantly switch between Windows and Linux desktops and I can "feel" no lag.

    6) Gaming while multitasking. You can't. Disk I/O kills everything else. Try installing a program while gaming sometime. Linux is very bad at multitasking, or doing it in a way that desktop users need, i.e. not completely freezing up everything else and dedicating every CPU cycle to an I/O process.
    I can play a session of Nexuiz, while I encode a 3 hour movie in the background, play some music, compile some source code, and have a browser open (that memory hog of Firefox) downloading some stuff. No problem at all. Yes, I loose some performance, put that's normal given the tasks I'm running simultaneously.
    I think here you specifically mean gaming with WINE. Yeah, with WINE you can't do anything else aside WINE. Installing a game slows everything else considerably as well. Everyone knows that WINE isn't a solution, so you can't fault Linux for it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dragonlord
    replied
    Originally posted by Yfrwlf View Post
    1) A GUI for terminating games which lock up.
    Every WM has such a thing.

    2) Standardized installation/removal system.
    Windows is not standarized at all. There are tons of different installers. Many don't even register themselves properly in the places designated for them. So Linux is fully on par in that regard.

    3) Monolithic kernel making any graphics glitches fatal.
    Oh, you mean this is any better? I agree that hard-locks suck but Windows is as prone to such hard-locks as is Linux. If you don't want such hard-locks in that quantity use Haiku-OS or any other BeOS derivate.

    4) Audio problems. Galore.
    Never had much of troubles with that. Depends also a lot on the design of the game engine. Granted the various sound systems are not the best but that's not the main problem... it's the closed-source thinking of audio board manufacturers.

    5) Lag, with everything. Audio lag, mouse lag, you name it,
    Lag? Where? Why should audio or the mouse lag? Never had any problems in games under Linux with lag in any way expect rendering speed under Wine but that's an emulator and does not count.

    6) Gaming while multitasking. You can't. Disk I/O kills everything else.
    Under Windows this is not possible, but under Linux I don't see a problem. I do it often in fact, especially while deving. For example running the game while doing hacking and file manipulation at the same time to locate bugs. Nightmare under Windows, easy to do under Linux so I don't get this point. Besides disk IO stalling is in general a problem with the game design. Disk IO is always considered slow in game deving.

    Currently, Windows offers solutions to all these issues, while Linux still has a ways to go.
    Sorry but that's major league bullshit there. Windows is in no way "much better" in these issues or does not have them. That's simply fanboy talk to claim so.

    1) Fast performance due to low overhead.
    And before you claimed it "lags"? Wait to contradict yourself.

    2) Free, unless you buy support or pay for development,
    No objection there.

    EDIT: Removed the last part for fairness reasons :P

    Leave a comment:

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