Steam On Linux Drops Below 2% For August 2024 Survey

[mSparks]

please leave us alone with 2023 news... honestly

nothing has changed since then, wayland universally lacks 3D hardware acceleration features and offers only limited 2D acceleration options, its not just limited to wine/proton, and not just some obscure stuff people dont care about either, we are talking basic functionality being a long way/probably never from being designed and implemented into the protocol

e.g.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hyprland/comments/1bh3eev/so_no_hardware_acceleration_in_wayland/

And even if they eventually get round to it, it will still need client side adoption, which will only happen if its actually easier to develop for and more performant, which, tbh, is nothing short of a joke.

[qarium]

nothing has changed since then, wayland universally lacks 3D hardware acceleration features and offers only limited 2D acceleration options, its not just limited to wine/proton, and not just some obscure stuff people dont care about either, we are talking basic functionality being a long way/probably never from being designed and implemented into the protocol
e.g.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hyprland/comments/1bh3eev/so_no_hardware_acceleration_in_wayland/

And even if they eventually get round to it, it will still need client side adoption, which will only happen if its actually easier to develop for and more performant, which, tbh, is nothing short of a joke.

i use wayland with gnome for years now... you always have to ask whatever you say does it even matter?
you say: "wayland universally lacks 3D hardware acceleration features"
but does it even matter? i can not experience that it does matter...

the wine/proton support to go natively with wayland is actively developed and this means in 1 year there can be a lot if stuff changed... so please 2023 news on a actively developed software stack...

i know you are hyper critical about wayland and it is your good right to do so.. but honestly people use it and well people can not even see why you complain that much.

[mSparks]

i use wayland with gnome for years now... you always have to ask whatever you say does it even matter?
you say: "wayland universally lacks 3D hardware acceleration features"
but does it even matter? i can not experience that it does matter...

the wine/proton support to go natively with wayland is actively developed and this means in 1 year there can be a lot if stuff changed... so please 2023 news on a actively developed software stack...

i know you are hyper critical about wayland and it is your good right to do so.. but honestly people use it and well people can not even see why you complain that much.

No, you use xwayland.

That's just X11 with a few extra milliseconds latency added on to everything it does and loads of useful libxcb server stuff intentionally broken.

wayland is something competely different, mostly designed for in car entertainment systems, with some redhat employees (and pretty much no one else) making contributions to it in order to meet their contribution targets.

[Espionage724]

i know you are hyper critical about wayland and it is your good right to do so.. but honestly people use it and well people can not even see why you complain that much.

Man forget that; I've heard the same echo since 2015 and Wayland is still worse than Xorg in 2024. Stop lying to people and help get Wayland up-to-par, and then shout about how much I should be using it

[qarium]

No, you use xwayland.

i use mostly firefox only... and Firefox switched from xwayland to native Wayland long time ago...
this means your claim that i use xwayland is completely speculation.

That's just X11 with a few extra milliseconds latency added on to everything it does and loads of useful libxcb server stuff intentionally broken.

we had this talk in the past wayland+xwayland add usefull security layers this means its not just x11 with few extra millisecond of latency...
for whatever reason you have ill intentions and you want to see the future of linux as a competitor to windows and apple macos death.
maybe you have stock market shared of microsoft and apple and you do not to see them lose market value.

wayland is something competely different, mostly designed for in car entertainment systems, with some redhat employees (and pretty much no one else) making contributions to it in order to meet their contribution targets.

well it looks like you are right wayland is only used in car enterainment systems and only developed by redhat for this purpose
and the valve steam deck of course use x11 and is of course developed by microsoft.

really with your believes i would go to a neurological doctor and do a check for dementia.

[Espionage724]

well it looks like you are right wayland is only used in car enterainment systems and only developed by redhat for this purpose
and the valve steam deck of course use x11 and is of course developed by microsoft.

They said "designed for in-car entertainment systems". Open-source means that anyone else can try haphazardly to tie it into a desktop experience at their own risk, and RH and Valve are into that risk

Also your non-subtle attempts to dissuade discussion with put-downs are a joke; I've seen harder trying to figure out why games have a Body type You can't out-argue real-world experience that easily.

[qarium]

Man forget that; I've heard the same echo since 2015 and Wayland is still worse than Xorg in 2024. Stop lying to people and help get Wayland up-to-par, and then shout about how much I should be using it

i use wayland every day.. even without xwayland as mSparks claim...

these accelerator problems are only on notebooks for people who need battery time on my threatripper systems this is not a problem at all.

[qarium]

They said "designed for in-car entertainment systems". Open-source means that anyone else can try haphazardly to tie it into a desktop experience at their own risk, and RH and Valve are into that risk
Also your non-subtle attempts to dissuade discussion with put-downs are a joke; I've seen harder trying to figure out why games have a Body type You can't out-argue real-world experience that easily.

i am not valve and i am not redhat and i have no steamdeck and i have no in-car entertainment system...

and i use fedora 40 with wayland every day and most of the day it does not touch xwayland

because my main apps like firefox are wayland native.

[mSparks]

i use mostly firefox only... and Firefox switched from xwayland to native Wayland long time ago...
this means your claim that i use xwayland is completely speculation.

firefox wayland is here

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1443803

wayland on firefox is experiemental, and if you arent using xwayland most of the ui is broken.

worth it because??

we had this talk in the past wayland+xwayland add usefull security layers

for desktop wayland proper offers less security than a properly configured X11 session, anything using xwayland is as secure as the weakest link in either X11 or wayland, since both are running.

well it looks like you are right wayland is only used in car enterainment systems and only developed by redhat for this purpose

wayland is designed for in car entertainment and embedded systems, and for that purpose it is very likely the best choice. Certainly better than anything ms has to offer

The whole point of wayland is it strips out the unnecessary complexity of multi user, multi application default of X11 for a single user, single application setting like car guages or payment terminals

redhat have pretty much abandoned the desktop and server space outside of selling ibm mainframes, which is imploding for various reasons.

and i use fedora 40 with wayland every day and most of the day it does not touch xwayland

There is NO LINUX DESKTOP SOFTWARE that does not require X11 - even firefox and chrome still lean heavily on libX11, try an install without it if you don't believe,
just delete everything returned by
rpm -ql libX11

and see what still works afterwards. (warning; you likely wont even be able to boot into a graphical session)

heck, anything using cairo is X11 only - that includes the wayland demos lol.

msparks@localhost:~$ dnf repoquery --requires cairo
Last metadata expiration check: 0:23:35 ago on Sat 14 Sep 2024 11:17:08 CEST.
libX11.so.6
libX11.so.6()(64bit)
libXext.so.6
libXext.so.6()(64bit)
libXrender.so.1
libXrender.so.1()(64bit)
libc.so.6(GLIBC_2.38)
libc.so.6(GLIBC_2.38)(64bit)
libfontconfig.so.1
libfontconfig.so.1()(64bit)
libfreetype.so.6
libfreetype.so.6()(64bit)
libm.so.6
libm.so.6()(64bit)
libm.so.6(GLIBC_2.0)
libm.so.6(GLIBC_2.1)
libm.so.6(GLIBC_2.2.5)(64bit)
libm.so.6(GLIBC_2.29)
libm.so.6(GLIBC_2.29)(64bit)
libm.so.6(GLIBC_2.35)
libm.so.6(GLIBC_2.35)(64bit)
libm.so.6(GLIBC_2.38)(64bit)
libpixman-1.so.0
libpixman-1.so.0()(64bit)
libpng16.so.16
libpng16.so.16()(64bit)
libpng16.so.16(PNG16_0)
libpng16.so.16(PNG16_0)(64bit)
libxcb-render.so.0
libxcb-render.so.0()(64bit)
libxcb-shm.so.0
libxcb-shm.so.0()(64bit)
libxcb.so.1
libxcb.so.1()(64bit)
libz.so.1
libz.so.1()(64bit)
rtld(GNU_HASH)

​

[qarium]

firefox wayland is here

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1443803

wayland on firefox is experiemental, and if you arent using xwayland most of the ui is broken.
worth it because??
for desktop wayland proper offers less security than a properly configured X11 session, anything using xwayland is as secure as the weakest link in either X11 or wayland, since both are running.
wayland is designed for in car entertainment and embedded systems, and for that purpose it is very likely the best choice. Certainly better than anything ms has to offer
The whole point of wayland is it strips out the unnecessary complexity of multi user, multi application default of X11 for a single user, single application setting like car guages or payment terminals
redhat have pretty much abandoned the desktop and server space outside of selling ibm mainframes, which is imploding for various reasons.
There is NO LINUX DESKTOP SOFTWARE that does not require X11 - even firefox and chrome still lean heavily on libX11, try an install without it if you don't believe,
just delete everything returned by
rpm -ql libX11
and see what still works afterwards. (warning; you likely wont even be able to boot into a graphical session)
heck, anything using cairo is X11 only - that includes the wayland demos lol.

msparks@localhost:~$ dnf repoquery --requires cairo
Last metadata expiration check: 0:23:35 ago on Sat 14 Sep 2024 11:17:08 CEST.
libX11.so.6
libX11.so.6()(64bit)
libXext.so.6
libXext.so.6()(64bit)
libXrender.so.1
libXrender.so.1()(64bit)
libc.so.6(GLIBC_2.38)
libc.so.6(GLIBC_2.38)(64bit)
libfontconfig.so.1
libfontconfig.so.1()(64bit)
libfreetype.so.6
libfreetype.so.6()(64bit)
libm.so.6
libm.so.6()(64bit)
libm.so.6(GLIBC_2.0)
libm.so.6(GLIBC_2.1)
libm.so.6(GLIBC_2.2.5)(64bit)
libm.so.6(GLIBC_2.29)
libm.so.6(GLIBC_2.29)(64bit)
libm.so.6(GLIBC_2.35)
libm.so.6(GLIBC_2.35)(64bit)
libm.so.6(GLIBC_2.38)(64bit)
libpixman-1.so.0
libpixman-1.so.0()(64bit)
libpng16.so.16
libpng16.so.16()(64bit)
libpng16.so.16(PNG16_0)
libpng16.so.16(PNG16_0)(64bit)
libxcb-render.so.0
libxcb-render.so.0()(64bit)
libxcb-shm.so.0
libxcb-shm.so.0()(64bit)
libxcb.so.1
libxcb.so.1()(64bit)
libz.so.1
libz.so.1()(64bit)
rtld(GNU_HASH)
​

i manually checkt it in the past i really use firefox in wayland mode.

you see it to technical and to perfectionist yes in a technical and perfectionist world all you say is correct.

and yes i even today crashed the firefox by moveing tabs around this sometimes lead to a firefox crash.
no big deal i just start it new.

well your interpretation could be that if wayland firefox can crash then it is not production ready in a technical perfectionist world.

but to be honest most people are not that critical than you mSparks

for a technical perfectionist like you this clearly means you wait another 10 years until it us mature enough for you.