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PCSX2 Emulator Disables Wayland Support By Default

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  • mSparks
    replied
    Originally posted by s_j_newbury View Post
    You're not forced to implement your compositor in C.
    In fact you definitely shouldn't, anyone who knows anything about security definitely wouldn't write it in C.

    They all did though, didnt they.

    while preaching we shouldn't use X11 because "security".

    And we are supposed to do something other than not point and laugh when not ignoring them?

    Leave a comment:


  • s_j_newbury
    replied
    Originally posted by mSparks View Post
    Anything that uses an array or index pointer can potentially have an overflow vulnerability
    You're not forced to implement your compositor in C. wayland-protocols bindings are generated automatically for several languages. For example there are compositors written in Rust.
    Its a lot more code than x-org.
    It uses all of the xorg code base
    and adds

    +
    https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston (or one of a hundred derivatives of, none of which have ever been used for production)

    to it.
    Xwayland is entirely optional, and isn't part of Wayland, it is specifically an X server for Wayland compositors which typically runs rootless and transparently on demand for legacy applications. Wayland compositors can work fine without Xwayland, you wouldn't even notice the difference until you find pcsx2 doesn't work anymore!

    for the sole purpose of allowing new applications (e.g. PCSX2) that do not depend on TCPIP, because non networked applications is the future I guess......
    Networked applications work fine, you know that. Presumably you're actually alluding to the historical X11 network transparency and XDMCP. Modern desktops and applications do not rely on X's intrinsic graphical and text rendering functionality, and like CSD, the window contents are drawn by the application themselves. This is not how X11 was intended to operate, the protocol expected server-side rendering, performance is not good when every window update is sent across the wire as a pre-rendered bitmap. This is why other remote display technologies have caught on like VNC and RDP. XDMCP is the protocol which allows an X terminal to connect to a remote X display manager, it's been disabled by default for many years (decades).

    Leave a comment:


  • mSparks
    replied
    Originally posted by ssokolow View Post

    And I'm talking about the latest Firefox as installed from Flatpak and the latest Flatseal as installed from Flatpak, both depending on Flatpak-provided up-to-date GTK versions, running on top of Kubuntu Linux 20.04 LTS. Those two screenshots were taken from the exact same desktop minutes before I posted them.
    What version of gnome is it installing?
    We are on gnome 45 now

    Discover what's new in GNOME, the distraction-free computing platform.

    Originally posted by ssokolow View Post
    year of the Linux desktop
    Probably around the time everyone in subsaharan Africa gets a Lamborghini for Christmas, I mean sure, its a nice idea, but no one is really willing to take the steps necessary to move linux from an OS by developers for developers to one Joe 6 pack can use to make his sports bets. Any more than they are willing to give buy random tribes in Africa Lamborghinis for Christmas

    Although Google have arguably done it with their Debian fork known as Android already.
    Last edited by mSparks; 01 December 2023, 03:01 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ssokolow
    replied
    Originally posted by mSparks View Post
    This is a modern really old version of gnome right click vs a modern KDE right click?


    I'm talking about the latest version of gnome released at the end of September.
    And I'm talking about the latest Firefox as installed from Flatpak and the latest Flatseal as installed from Flatpak, both depending on Flatpak-provided up-to-date GTK versions, running on top of Kubuntu Linux 20.04 LTS. Those two screenshots were taken from the exact same desktop minutes before I posted them.

    Originally posted by mSparks View Post
    Yeah they do, and VR, they just don't know it yet.
    Keep telling yourself that. That's what GNOME has been doing since 2011. I'm sure the great awakening and the year of the Linux desktop are both right around the corner.

    Originally posted by mSparks View Post
    Just watched a YT video with some 20 odd year olds discussing buying their first laptop, hilarious, getting the perfect set up takes time and money (and they dont sell them "off the shelf")
    OK, I'm curious about that one. Got a link?

    Leave a comment:


  • mSparks
    replied
    Originally posted by ssokolow View Post

    The only meaningful interpretation of that makes so little sense in context with the conversation we were having that I don't even know what you're saying anymore. What's the same for any windows?
    This is a modern really old version of gnome right click vs a modern KDE right click?
    Originally posted by ssokolow View Post





    I'm talking about the latest version of gnome released at the end of September.

    Originally posted by ssokolow View Post

    Good for you. Not everyone wants that.
    Yeah they do, and VR, they just don't know it yet.

    Just watched a YT video with some 20 odd year olds discussing buying their first laptop, hilarious, getting the perfect set up takes time and money (and they dont sell them "off the shelf")

    Leave a comment:


  • ssokolow
    replied
    Originally posted by mSparks View Post
    That's the same for any windows, plus I think a couple probably add their own
    The only meaningful interpretation of that makes so little sense in context with the conversation we were having that I don't even know what you're saying anymore. What's the same for any windows?

    ...because the behaviour I want is certainly the same for any SSD-using windows, and the behaviour is certainly not the same between the windows which obey my System Settings preferences and the windows which use CSDs.

    Originally posted by mSparks View Post
    alt+f7 and alt+f8 by default in gnome 45, very easy to change
    That's like an ad network saying "We decided not to honour the DNT header, but it's very easy to go to our website and click a button to set our opt-out cookie."

    I set my preferences in System Settings. They Just Work™ in every application except the ones that think they're too good for server-side decorations, using a toolkit developed by people who apparently have no interest in collaborating with KDE to make GTK's CSDs honour the same config settings KWin listens to for SSDs.

    Originally posted by mSparks View Post
    I use three screens and keep everything maximised, so win+shift left/right is my go to for moving windows.
    Good for you. Not everyone wants that.

    I remember the bad old days of having to separately configure KDE apps, GNOME apps, Xfce apps, ROX Desktop apps, etc. because they shared basically no configuration beyond the stuff baked into XFree86.

    Leave a comment:


  • mSparks
    replied
    Originally posted by s_j_newbury View Post

    How can a protocol have buffer overflows? Could some implementations? Sure, but it's a lot less code than Xorg. Xorg isn't the only X server implementation, and isn't only an X server.
    Anything that uses an array or index pointer can potentially have an overflow vulnerability

    Originally posted by s_j_newbury View Post
    but it's a lot less code than Xorg.
    Its a lot more code than x-org.
    It uses all of the xorg code base
    and adds

    +
    https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/weston (or one of a hundred derivatives of, none of which have ever been used for production)

    to it.

    for the sole purpose of allowing new applications (e.g. PCSX2) that do not depend on TCPIP, because non networked applications is the future I guess......
    Last edited by mSparks; 01 December 2023, 12:00 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • s_j_newbury
    replied
    Originally posted by mSparks View Post
    afaict this whole "security" thing is marketing BS anyway, with zero evidence to back any of the claims up and decades of X11 not getting pwned to demonstrate the claims as false.

    If anything the general incompetence shown in wayland development so far suggests it is waaaaay more likely to have some nasty buffer overflows and privilege escalations hiding in the fragmented spaghetti code that makes up a wayland install than a battle hardened xorg-server - an xorg-server wayland is falling back on for any kind of gpu acceleration anyway.
    How can a protocol have buffer overflows? Could some implementations? Sure, but it's a lot less code than Xorg. Xorg isn't the only X server implementation, and isn't only an X server.
    an xorg-server wayland is falling back on for any kind of gpu acceleration anyway.
    What did you mean by this? This is simply wrong. In fact, it's completely backwards. Compositors provide the acceleration for Xwayland through Glamor. If you're talking about X11 apps using GLX/EGL OpenGL or GLES then it goes through the DRI3 X extension which gets passsed through to the DRI drivers as on Xorg. Applications running on Wayland compositors without Xwayland have full access to acceleration APIs OpenGL/GLES through EGL, or Vulkan. I don't know where you got the idea they don't? Obviously GLX isn't a thing without an X server since it's an X extension.

    Leave a comment:


  • mSparks
    replied
    Originally posted by ssokolow View Post

    Again, the point is consistency. "Application X does it properly" (which I can't be sure of since I can't remember where my Firefox's CSD toggle is. That might still be missing things I use like "Show in Activities", "Move to Screen", "No Border", and "Configure Special Window Settings". It's annoying when I have to know about and hit Alt+F3 to access the actual WM-provided context menu.) is not a rebuttal of "Application Y does it improperly" any more than "I always wear my seatbelt" is a rebuttal of "we need a law to make seatbelt-wearing mandatory".
    That's the same for any windows, plus I think a couple probably add their own
    Originally posted by ssokolow View Post
    ...and I can use Alt+LeftDrag to move windows which have no windeco at all and Alt+RightDrag to resize them. The existence of hotkeys for various operations doesn't rebut that the Headerbar-using application on my desktop refuses to honor my preference that double-clicking on a window's titlebar should shade/unshade it, not maximize/unmaximize.
    alt+f7 and alt+f8 by default in gnome 45, very easy to change

    I use three screens and keep everything maximised, so win+shift left/right is my go to for moving windows.
    Last edited by mSparks; 01 December 2023, 08:49 AM.

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  • ssokolow
    replied
    Originally posted by mSparks View Post
    not sure what I'm supposed to be looking at, this is right click on firefox in gnome 45
    Again, the point is consistency. "Application X does it properly" (which I can't be sure of since I can't remember where my Firefox's CSD toggle is. That might still be missing things I use like "Show in Activities", "Move to Screen", "No Border", and "Configure Special Window Settings". It's annoying when I have to know about and hit Alt+F3 to access the actual WM-provided context menu.) is not a rebuttal of "Application Y does it improperly" any more than "I always wear my seatbelt" is a rebuttal of "we need a law to make seatbelt-wearing mandatory".

    Originally posted by mSparks View Post
    I can hit the window into the top to maximise it, max it left and right with windows key left and right, minimize/maximise it with windows key up and down and shift the whole full screen window a screen left and right with windows key, shift left and right.

    there are a ton of extras in settings I've not really played with, because that is all I need.
    ...and I can use Alt+LeftDrag to move windows which have no windeco at all and Alt+RightDrag to resize them. The existence of hotkeys for various operations doesn't rebut that the Headerbar-using application on my desktop refuses to honor my preference that double-clicking on a window's titlebar should shade/unshade it, not maximize/unmaximize.
    Last edited by ssokolow; 01 December 2023, 06:09 AM.

    Leave a comment:

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