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Mesa 23.3 Lands Optional Support For Allowing Game Tearing On Wayland

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  • bple2137
    replied
    Originally posted by geearf View Post

    What makes no tearing a dumb mistake? Isn't better quality a good thing? Or does it potentially make a game unplayable when it could be playable with tearing?
    That really depends on a use-case. If you watch video, edit your spreadsheets or scroll through web pages you probably don't want to see any tearing and it's reasonable to drop frames that didn't make it for the vblank cycle. With games it's a little different, because waiting for vblank introduces latency. Not every gamer is e-sport player and in fact most of the time people keep vsync enabled to match with the refresh rate, but it's about the choice. If your hardware cannot push 60fps and you're on 60Hz screen, the choice is between tearing and stutter. It's perfectly fine unless you, as user, can decide for one option or another on compositor level. Forcing something that's effectively a global v-sync wasn't ever a good idea for that particular use, but it's great for most things.

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  • geearf
    replied
    Originally posted by RealNC View Post

    A promise made by people who don't have any clue whatsoever about PC gaming

    Microsoft did the same with their new (well, by now not very new) DX12 presentation model. Always perfect frames. Then game devs made them realize what a dumb mistake that was and introduced a tearing mode later on. The way it works now on Windows is that the application cannot override user preference. If the user wants every frame to be synced, they force it in the driver control panel. The game is unable to tear. If the user wants to game to control whether or not it tears, they set the option to "application preference." It's not rocket science.
    What makes no tearing a dumb mistake? Isn't better quality a good thing? Or does it potentially make a game unplayable when it could be playable with tearing?

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  • RealNC
    replied
    Originally posted by ayumu View Post
    The one promise of Wayland to never show imperfect frames... broken.
    A promise made by people who don't have any clue whatsoever about PC gaming

    Microsoft did the same with their new (well, by now not very new) DX12 presentation model. Always perfect frames. Then game devs made them realize what a dumb mistake that was and introduced a tearing mode later on. The way it works now on Windows is that the application cannot override user preference. If the user wants every frame to be synced, they force it in the driver control panel. The game is unable to tear. If the user wants to game to control whether or not it tears, they set the option to "application preference." It's not rocket science.
    Last edited by RealNC; 12 September 2023, 05:42 AM.

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  • pracedru
    replied
    Great work.
    Wayland on Gnome works 99.9% of the time for me. I only need to login in to a X11 session, and experience the stuttering mess it is, very rarely.

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  • mos87
    replied
    Originally posted by ayumu View Post
    The one promise of Wayland to never show imperfect frames... broken.

    They could have focused their efforts into making triple buffering work really well, as well as dynamic refresh such as freesync.

    But no, they instead settle for the usual mediocrity.
    🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦

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  • smitty3268
    replied
    Originally posted by AnAccount View Post
    It would be a different thing, if there were a user switch to allow/disallow it.
    That's a good idea. Maybe they could call it PresentOptionAsyncMayTear.

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  • AnAccount
    replied
    Originally posted by shmerl View Post
    What's the point of making promises that aren't useful. If you want to break frames, you should be able to, instead of "we promised, so you are forbidden to".
    But this is not that.... this is allowing for someone else (the game developers) to break my frames on my computer. It would be a different thing, if there were a user switch to allow/disallow it. But as it is now, this extension allows a thirdparty to break my frames.

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  • Kjell
    replied
    Wayland is close to being really good for me if only direct scanout wasn't breaking vblank with VRR
    Sway Versions: Stable: Sway 1.8.1 + Wlroots 1.6.2 Next: Sway 1.9.0-dev-363c579 + Wlroots 1.7.0-dev-5f691259 (Tested on Arch Linux with 23.1.6) Debug Log: Result from starting Sway 1.8.1 > Steam > H...

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  • omer666
    replied
    Originally posted by ayumu View Post
    The one promise of Wayland to never show imperfect frames... broken.

    They could have focused their efforts into making triple buffering work really well, as well as dynamic refresh such as freesync.

    But no, they instead settle for the usual mediocrity.
    As far as I know, both triple buffering and variable refresh rate are supported by Wayland. Those are not implemented in GNOME yet, but there are efforts to merge the corresponding patches (including GUI configuration for when to enable VRR and tearing.)

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  • Berniyh
    replied
    Originally posted by ayumu View Post
    They could have focused their efforts into making triple buffering work really well, as well as dynamic refresh such as freesync.
    Uhm, it's not like these are excluded by having the option to allow for tearing.

    Also not really sure what you mean by "making triple buffering work really well". What kind of tricks do you have up your sleeves?

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