Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Steam On Linux Use Ticked Higher In May, 25% Of Linux Gamers Are Using The Steam Deck

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • avis
    replied
    Originally posted by Weasel View Post
    ...
    First, is Win32 native API to Linux? Is DirectX native API to Linux? You may build a hundred layers of excuses and tricks to claim that's not "emulation" only I don't give a damn about rich verbiage. These are completely alien APIs and they will never work as well as they work under an OS which provides them natively. It's a ton worse than what FreeBSD does. FreeBSD's Linux emulation is actually very close to running natively.

    Second, Windows Test Mode is easily discoverable. Of course as a cheat author you can hide everything but the user will have to enable testsinging mode in the first place and many will not do because they will be scared. That's too close to actually running malware on your system.

    Third, under Linux there's zero guarantee that anything that the game works with is real/pristine. The kernel driver, Mesa, everything can be replaced/patched however the user wants. In Windows the entire system is digitally signed starting from the bootloader. Overriding this is extremely difficult if not impossible. And let me tell you one thing: there are undetectable hardware cheats. The problem is they are all bespoke and not produced on a mass scale. I'm fine with all the 20 people in the world who have them. I'm not fine with practically any Linux user who can be a dirty cheater because there's no way to verify their system integrity.

    God, the amount of weaseling out, just to misrepresent how horribly bad Linux for Windows gaming is, is just disgusting.

    I'm totally fine with Wine, DXVK, proton, whatever. This is not "Linux gaming" and never will be. Maybe start with the English language and basic logic.

    Let's call this DXVK/Wine gaming under Linux because outside this combo, there's nothing to speak of. Not a single native AAA title for Linux for the past five years. Or maybe there have been one or two. Well, Windows has at least five dozen of them annually.
    Last edited by avis; 02 June 2023, 10:53 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Weasel
    replied
    Originally posted by avis View Post
    Don't mistake emulation gaming (gaming emulation) for Linux gaming. Linux gaming does not exist.
    What emulation?

    Providing a separate implementation of the Windows API is emulation now? So graphics drivers are all emulation since they provide their own separate implementations of the OpenGL/Vulkan APIs?

    And installing a new library is emulation too, I guess.

    Originally posted by avis View Post
    Linux cannot even provide a secure base platform for games to rely on. In Windows games which want to protect you from cheaters may use Secure Boot/TPM/signed Windows kernel driver to have the assurance that the system is not compromised and you're not running cheat applications. In Linux, nothing is guaranteed. Linux fully trusts custom MOK certificates, so even Secure Boot is a joke in terms of providing system integrity.

    "I only play single player games and I don't care about multiplayer", yeah, right, please don't.
    You can literally use test mode and install custom drivers which have full privileges. Secure Boot isn't designed to ensure your users aren't compromised, it's designed for the user to know his system isn't compromised. He can still "compromise" it himself if he really wants to.

    Next you're going to say that installing custom drivers and using test mode (so they don't require signing) is too hard for cheaters, but your bullshit alternative entails them replacing a core system component which is just as much work.

    Lastly, this is just you grasping for straws. On Windows, you can just replace the god damn .DLL by dropping it in the app's directory. The fact you don't know how widespread cheating this is (in MMOs using stuff like GameGuard btw) shows how much you're grasping for theoretical straws without actually knowing it in practice.

    winmm.dll is a very popular DLL to replace by dropping into the game's dir, and forwarding calls to the system one (so it works the same) while injecting your own DLLs to cheat during initialization.

    Of course you can do this on Linux as well using LD_PRELOAD. Not claiming you can't. The point is, Windows is not a haven for anti-cheats.

    The only anti-cheats that are hard to bypass are those using periodic heartbeats to the server. They're also the most malware/rootkit worthy because they literally connect online and can likely be compromised by exploits.

    And the reason they're hard to bypass has nothing to do with Windows itself, it's simply because you need to completely replicate their heartbeat in your cheat, else you get booted off, because you disable the anti-cheat. And that requires a lot of reverse engineering and constant cat-and-mouse game.

    Here's another funny part: games that don't work due to anti-cheat, usually work on Linux with Proton if you bypass the anti-cheats using the aforementioned cheats like dropping the special winmm.dll into the game's dir. Not a single line of code change to Proton. Windows so good man!
    Last edited by Weasel; 02 June 2023, 10:05 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • blackiwid
    replied
    Well we should separate steam on linux and hardware. Because for the hardware I think it's just to expensive, now you could argue but therefor it' somehow free and games are cheaper, but is it free? with proprietary steam and games on it? Not really?

    Now is it "jailed" like other consoles? No, but everything you could do from a jailbreak on other platform you basically can't do on that console anyway.

    I can even concentrate my critique down to 1 game and it's surroundings "Skyrim" so what alternatives you have on steam / deck:
    1. buy Skyrim over the store installing the windows based mod tool with luck you can install outside of steam with lutris installers maybe if the paths are set right, it probably runs, but with a high level of "hacking", yes even install lutris learn about it choose between 2 different versions understand what's the difference. You better bought the correct version of steam of the at least 3 I know otherwise you will have more problems.
    2. you bought it over GOG, maybe even before you had the switch, modding over the primary modding tool is either off the table or it requires lot of deep hacking to get it run, basically it does not work at all.
    3. you want to use your "jailbreaked" system or "not jailed" system for "not jailed" tasks, aka use a "free" copy, forget it modding is off the table at least the graphical stuff that patches system files that the tool does is of the table.

    Now let's go to the Switch, yes not all mods are for the switch version of skyrim, but you pay at worst 50% of the price of the console,no matter if you use a free copy or a paid version, modding works without problems, the mods that exist for skyrim.

    Oh and don't forget that if you use a "free" version you don't get automatically a good button mapping inside then lutris for skyrim.

    Now I know skyrim looks 10 times worse on the switch, and probably most mods don't work, but I also paid way less, but I still get a better experience playing a free copy of skyrim on the switch than a paid GOG version on the Steam Deck.

    If I realized that most of all "PC" or multiplattform games run on the switch and somewhat descent (compared to the wii that was like slightly better than N64 Graphics) I probably would have switched earlier. I just thought this is mostly a Nintendo exclusive game machine and I didn't see the big value in handheld I do now. Not to mention the OLED display and the longer runtime more flexibility movement based controls and all the stuff.

    I don't like necessarily linux for gaming more than windows because of ideology, the same with AMD vs NVIDIA it's convenience, Linux is more convenient to me than this horrible claustrophobic Windows Desktop. And yes Nvidia not only tries to force people to buy expensive Nvidia Monitors (Gsync) or sometimes older cards get slowed down with drivers or other fun stuff, it's a "tainted" plattform with the proprietary game software on it anyway. So would be able to push a proprietary software somehow in the kernel and no kernel switch or nothing would work worse or lead to not starting Xserver or stuff like that, and they would bring better value / money for a graphic cards I would not hesitate much to use it on my gaming machine. I don't trust this machine anyway for anything else than gaming.
    Last edited by blackiwid; 02 June 2023, 07:58 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • RejectModernity
    replied
    Originally posted by avis View Post

    Don't mistake emulation gaming (gaming emulation) for Linux gaming. Linux gaming does not exist.

    Linux cannot even provide a secure base platform for games to rely on. In Windows games which want to protect you from cheaters may use Secure Boot/TPM/signed Windows kernel driver to have the assurance that the system is not compromised and you're not running cheat applications. In Linux, nothing is guaranteed. Linux fully trusts custom MOK certificates, so even Secure Boot is a joke in terms of providing system integrity.

    "I only play single player games and I don't care about multiplayer", yeah, right, please don't.
    Stop it, get some help.

    Leave a comment:


  • Inopia
    replied
    Steam for Android as a software store wouldn't be too bad of an idea. And now that EU is pushing Apple to allow side loading on iOS they could also release it over there too.

    Also hyped for Linux overtaking Mac OS if current trend keeps up.

    Leave a comment:


  • avis
    replied
    Originally posted by mrg666 View Post
    I think a Steam console is coming up in the near future to compete with XBOX and PlayStation. I will not be surprised to see an accelerating growth of Linux gaming. I have been using my Ubuntu system with Steam, there is no disadvantage anymore compared to playing in Windows if the system has the right hardware. Happy to see this happening.
    Don't mistake emulation gaming (gaming emulation) for Linux gaming. Linux gaming does not exist.

    Linux cannot even provide a secure base platform for games to rely on. In Windows games which want to protect you from cheaters may use Secure Boot/TPM/signed Windows kernel driver to have the assurance that the system is not compromised and you're not running cheat applications. In Linux, nothing is guaranteed. Linux fully trusts custom MOK certificates, so even Secure Boot is a joke in terms of providing system integrity.

    "I only play single player games and I don't care about multiplayer", yeah, right, please don't.
    Last edited by avis; 02 June 2023, 05:58 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • mrg666
    replied
    I think a Steam console is coming up in the near future to compete with XBOX and PlayStation. I will not be surprised to see an accelerating growth of Linux gaming. I have been using my Ubuntu system with Steam, there is no disadvantage anymore compared to playing in Windows if the system has the right hardware. Happy to see this happening.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tuxee
    replied
    Originally posted by qarium View Post
    Valve please offer more form factors not everyone want a steam deck

    make a Valve steam gaming Smartphone
    What should that be?

    a Valve steam Gaming notebook/laptop
    So... a laptop with a decent graphics card.

    a Valve steam Gaming Desktop
    So... a desktop with a decent graphics card.

    a Valve gaming console like device
    So... a small form-factor desktop without a keyboard.

    Valve should even consider to release a Valve NAS and or Server
    I'm not sure... is this an attempt at sarcasm or just stupidity from your side?

    Leave a comment:


  • drakonas777
    replied
    Originally posted by qarium View Post
    Valve please offer more form factors not everyone want a steam deck

    make a Valve steam gaming Smartphone

    a Valve steam Gaming notebook/laptop

    a Valve steam Gaming Desktop

    a Valve gaming console like device

    Valve should even consider to release a Valve NAS and or Server

    and please Valve accept that some people like me would never buy a VR game and are still traditional gamers
    this means please rerelease half-life alyx as a non-VR game version. i know there are mods for this but i mean a official version.

    now you say the steam box in the past failed this means this form factor is death...

    i have different opinion why the first steambox failed it was a """""INTEL CPU""""""" and """""Nvidia GPU""""""
    and the shity OS was Ubundu based.... and OpenGL and native ports ruined the game

    i bougt the first steambox controller but i would never buy a system with Nvidia GPU or Intel CPU and of course ubuntu is shit.

    now with proton and ACO and AMD hardware it could be a success.

    for a Valve steam Gaming notebook/laptop and Desktop​ Valve should consider the ryzen 7800X3D cpu for the best gaming performance. even on a notebook the 7800X3D would easily be the best performance per watt gaming cpu...

    of course this cpu costs € 465​ .... but its worth it.

    for the desktop PC put in a RX 7900 XTX and for the notebook put in a RX 7600 gpu​
    I'm afraid that's a bit too much to expect

    However, I agree that having more devices from Valve would be nice, like a more expensive/premium "pro" version of Steam Deck with OLED and more powerful APU. The screen also could be a bit bigger, they could easily increase it by 1 inch by reducing bezels on the current steam deck form factor. I personally would even appreciate a bit bigger form factor with ~10" screen, because I find myself using SD mostly at home on the couch/armchair instead actually on-the-go.

    Leave a comment:


  • lowflyer
    replied
    Originally posted by qarium View Post
    Valve please offer more form factors not everyone want a steam deck

    make a Valve steam gaming Smartphone

    a Valve steam Gaming notebook/laptop

    a Valve steam Gaming Desktop

    a Valve gaming console like device

    Valve should even consider to release a Valve NAS and or Server

    and please Valve accept that some people like me would never buy a VR game and are still traditional gamers
    this means please rerelease half-life alyx as a non-VR game version. i know there are mods for this but i mean a official version.

    now you say the steam box in the past failed this means this form factor is death...

    i have different opinion why the first steambox failed it was a """""INTEL CPU""""""" and """""Nvidia GPU""""""
    and the shity OS was Ubundu based.... and OpenGL and native ports ruined the game

    i bougt the first steambox controller but i would never buy a system with Nvidia GPU or Intel CPU and of course ubuntu is shit.

    now with proton and ACO and AMD hardware it could be a success.

    for a Valve steam Gaming notebook/laptop and Desktop​ Valve should consider the ryzen 7800X3D cpu for the best gaming performance. even on a notebook the 7800X3D would easily be the best performance per watt gaming cpu...

    of course this cpu costs € 465​ .... but its worth it.

    for the desktop PC put in a RX 7900 XTX and for the notebook put in a RX 7600 gpu​
    ... and

    a Valve Steam gaming smartwatch

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X