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  • #21
    Quackdoc In socialism, people still own stuff. It's solely(!) the ownership structure of workplaces (=means of production) that would change, along with a focus of ensuring that all basic needs are met, for everyone. It also means that labor is organized in a more democratic fashion. Byebye bad working conditions or salaries getting adjusted below the rate of inflation.

    Since sustainability (economical, environmental and societal) and social welfare are prioritized higher than profit maximization, harmful practices like supermarkets throwing away perfectly good food and pouring bleach on it to prevent "dumpster diving", or generally, containers of useless goods getting produced and then shredded or burnt because they didn't sell, wouldn't happen.

    Things like converting the whole energy grid to emission-free sources would also be easier to implement, because it doesn't need to be profitable and as reliant on external investors, just cost covering (material, transport, labor, maintenance). Other than that, it creates an environment that makes it easier to ensure that human rights are met: I.e. there is a fundamental right to housing, food, education and access to medical treatments, which is independent from ones status of employment and financial standing!

    Capitalism fails to properly address all of these things, because it puts too much power, wealth and influence into the hands of a select few, to the point that these people can decide over the future of thousands of others, aswell as circumvent the democratic process by leveraging politics into doing their bidding and greatly influencing media coverage.

    I don't think that capitalism can be "fixed", in the sense that already it works as intended: It structures the economy, and society as a whole, such, that those with enough money cannot loose, at the cost of the wellbeing of the majority. With tremendous effort, the system could be regulated, but I'd argue that these changes are be bound to erode over time - we've already seen this, just take the last 50-60 years in nearly every western, 1st world country for example. Thus, there needs to be a fundamentally different system.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by shmerl View Post
      Except soviets had nothing to do with employees partaking in decision making They were just one huge monopoly corpo controlled by the government.
      exactly the Red-Nobility of the party who did make the decisions where in fact not the employees...
      Phantom circuit Sequence Reducer Dyslexia

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      • #23
        This thread was painful to read.

        People think "The US is Capitolism"

        And "Housing comes from da Government"

        Fuck.

        Next people will tell me that "Food come from da grocery store" and that

        DPRK is Democratic because it has "Democratic" in the name.

        Fuck.

        Fucking *****-isms.

        The perfect is the enemy of good - Laozi
        Have people become so fucking dim & dense.

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        • #24
          I just want to get paid for doing a job then go home and forget work exists, stop revolving your life around work and get a hobby or even better, a family

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          • #25
            Originally posted by shmerl View Post
            Sorry to burst your bubble, but Lenin and Trotsky were just power hungry maniacs. It was fun to read how Trotsky especially felt salty when some compared fascists and bolsheviks pointing out how left and right extremes are way more similar than different. Trotksy was furious about the comparison. Because "oh, the ideology is so not the same". But thirst for power is and that's what the main point of all of them was. And it's power for them, not for the people obviously.
            does this mean that as soon as someone has power it is bad ? historically there are multible "Good Kings" known with power who did not abuse their power and where a great benefit for their people.
            Phantom circuit Sequence Reducer Dyslexia

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            • #26
              Originally posted by Quackdoc View Post
              man, not a day where phoronix doesn't become a shitpool. commies and socialists go home, if you are even allowed to have one.
              for me its a mystery why these people pop up here. what do they think they get done here ? i don't know
              Phantom circuit Sequence Reducer Dyslexia

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              • #27
                Originally posted by cmsigler View Post

                But human nature -- the survival instinct -- drives mankind towards a lowest common denominator rather than lofty, communal, utopian goals and actions. And this fact is inescapable without replacing human beings with some other type of creature (one supposes).
                The reality of human behavior is more complex then in the simple capitalist model. Humans are equipped with emotions like responsibility, pride and shame, that drive them to do things that are for the good of their children or their communities.

                Unfortunately the same emotions can be used to turn men into soldiers.

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                • #28
                  Historically we had no actual democratic socialism yet. Perhaps it's feasible, perhaps not, but any attempt to discredit this idea by talking about communism is a shit argument.

                  For me capitalism with socialistic elements seems to be the optimal model for the time being, especially considering the rise of AI and robotics.

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by drakonas777 View Post
                    For me capitalism with socialistic elements seems to be the optimal model for the time being, especially considering the rise of AI and robotics.
                    If you replace socialistic elements with social elements you will have the European Model most countries here are structured like this. Free market - capitalistic principles but common health insurance, public pension funds and social security insurance.

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                    • #30
                      skeevy420 spot on. We tend to have the trend here in Europe too. Luckily there are more social laws prohibiting full steam manchester capitalism. But more often recently EU is insisting on Right to repair. Forcing apple to go USB c even if they have found a clever loophole. AFAIK taking good food from trash containers near supermarkets is no crime anymore... But e.g. Germany is having a housing crisis. Due to the fact that the state was not investing enough in social housing the last 20 years. ....we should have a beer to discuss this

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