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SteamOS 3.2 Released With More Improvements For The Steam Deck

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  • Quackdoc
    replied
    Originally posted by brucethemoose View Post

    I dispute a few things here.

    - MPV doesn't seem to use adaptive sync for me in linux, on AMD or Nvidia, but perhaps I have something set up wrong. It does work on Windows though, and it works in linux games.
    interesting below ill post a config you can try down below. but I find some wayland compositors can sometimes mess with some stuff and MPV doesn't always play nice. at the very least it should trigger. but it's important to make sure you disable interpolation and vsync in mpv as they are on by default

    - I have run into VFR animation all too often, but I have never run into a file encoded as VFR in the wild. Its usually just encoded as 24p or 30p or some interlaced format and... a mess. But in the same vein, I'm not really an anime consumer.
    it happens a fair amount in regards to older anime, modern anime... I couldn't say, I presume it's not as common. unless you get encoded video, in which case it's usually badly interpolated or a juddery mess. though some encoding groups used to preserve VFR content, im not sure if many do any more sadly.

    - I'm not aware of any good linux interpolation that can ingest vfr video, other than mpv's relatively simple frame blending. The closest thing I have witnessed is duplicate frame/native framerate detection on some TV's smooth motion asics (which is actually really cool). I can maybe imagine setting up a vapoursynth script with RIFE or something, but that sounds really complicated and finicky.
    exactly my issue. I personally wish VFR content support was more popular, and maybe it will finally become more popular, as VRR displays become more common, as it is a pain to mix say 24fps footage and 60fps, unless you do some really good interpolation... which I have yet to see. VRR displays handle it really well. which is why I won't get a device without a VRR display if I can help it. certainly not a leisure device. without VRR


    Code:
    #### Vsync OFF ####
    vulkan-swap-mode=immediate
    opengl-swapinterval=0
    #wayland-disable-vsync=yes
    video-sync=audio
    interpolation=no
    
    ###enable this to force mpv to play as 48fps may be useful for testing###
    #vf=fps=48
    use an overlay (like gallium hud or VK_INSTANCE_LAYERS=VK_LAYER_MESA_overlay note not all mesa builds have vk layer overlay enabled so that might not work on all distros) to get the fps being output. if it's not below 60fps it won't trigger (on KDE make sure adaptivesync is set to automatic or on, and mpv is fullscreen) I;ve had at least two people confirm that this works on their setups both I think were kde?

    also it's worth noting lately I've been having issues getting over 60fps content to work on kde wayland (having a lot of issue in general since my re-install).

    Leave a comment:


  • brucethemoose
    replied
    Originally posted by Quackdoc View Post

    not quite true, while you can do that, needing to change the display everytime you change video framerates is quite frankly a bad experience, and that's discounting the large amount of VFR content (older cartoons, and anime are often VFR) so on and so forth. VFR content is nearly impossible to watch well without insanely good interpolation or VRR. if you watch a lot of videos back to back. with varying framerates, this can happen often if you watch youtube, (I always cast YT to mpv myself).

    there is a reason why vesa came up with their mediasync certification which needs VRR. it's because it really is that much of a game changer for media consumption. even now I use MPV with freesync for all media consumption, I wish it had LFC backed into mpv, LFC seems to work on my specific setup without issue. but I would like the assurance of it working everywhere
    I dispute a few things here.

    - MPV doesn't seem to use adaptive sync for me in linux, on AMD or Nvidia, but perhaps I have something set up wrong. It does work on Windows though, and it works in linux games.

    - I have run into VFR animation all too often, but I have never run into a file encoded as VFR in the wild. Its usually just encoded as 24p or 30p or some interlaced format and... a mess. But in the same vein, I'm not really an anime consumer.

    - I'm not aware of any good linux interpolation that can ingest vfr video, other than mpv's relatively simple frame blending. The closest thing I have witnessed is duplicate frame/native framerate detection on some TV's smooth motion asics (which is actually really cool). I can maybe imagine setting up a vapoursynth script with RIFE or something, but that sounds really complicated and finicky.
    Last edited by brucethemoose; 27 May 2022, 07:48 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Quackdoc
    replied
    Originally posted by brucethemoose View Post
    EDIT: That being said, I don't really get Quack's specific criticism here, as you can presumably set the display to 47.952hz, right? The deck has serious issues as a video consumption device, but lack of VRR isnt a big one.
    not quite true, while you can do that, needing to change the display everytime you change video framerates is quite frankly a bad experience, and that's discounting the large amount of VFR content (older cartoons, and anime are often VFR) so on and so forth. VFR content is nearly impossible to watch well without insanely good interpolation or VRR. if you watch a lot of videos back to back. with varying framerates, this can happen often if you watch youtube, (I always cast YT to mpv myself).

    there is a reason why vesa came up with their mediasync certification which needs VRR. it's because it really is that much of a game changer for media consumption. even now I use MPV with freesync for all media consumption, I wish it had LFC backed into mpv, LFC seems to work on my specific setup without issue. but I would like the assurance of it working everywhere

    Leave a comment:


  • slalomsk8er
    replied
    Thanks for the link - now I get it and I know the effect but I'm not bothered much by it.

    I haven't found the setting to switch the refresh rate but a quick search suggested, that it's a new feature coming with the next update of the OS.

    Leave a comment:


  • brucethemoose
    replied
    Originally posted by slalomsk8er View Post

    I haven't noticed any judder while watching videos. Do you have any addvice in testing for this issue, so that someone insensitive like me can better pick up the problem?
    RTings has a great explainer on it: https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/motion/24p

    You can test it by watching a video in mpv (with a stock config) side-by side yourself with 2 monitors, with one at a 23.976hz refresh (or even better, some multiple of this) and one at 60hz.


    But if you don't normally see it, its probably not a big deal. To me, its like night and day... I think some brains are just more biologically predisposed to see it.

    EDIT: That being said, I don't really get Quack's specific criticism here, as you can presumably set the display to 47.952hz, right? The deck has serious issues as a video consumption device, but lack of VRR isnt a big one.
    Last edited by brucethemoose; 27 May 2022, 09:45 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • slalomsk8er
    replied
    Originally posted by Quackdoc View Post

    don't get me wrong, I absolutely want a device like the steam deck, or even the steamdeck itself if VRR displays came out either as an new model, or a afterparty mod. but I find VRR to be a necessity for me, as it for me would also serve as a content consuming device, and judder is nauseating for me, and VRR is really the only think that can conveniently solve that. and as a gaming machine, I certainly couldn't stand limiting to 40fps. I realize some people can tolerate that, but I myself cannot.
    I haven't noticed any judder while watching videos. Do you have any addvice in testing for this issue, so that someone insensitive like me can better pick up the problem?

    Leave a comment:


  • Quackdoc
    replied
    Originally posted by slalomsk8er View Post

    I just got mine. Your reasoning is nice and well but I really enjoy my new toy and I think you will miss out. Let me tell you the best value for the bug is that I already have, 44 games that are certified to run great and 107 games that maybe need some interaction with the touchscreen, in my library. Because of this value proposition, I think they could easily ask for a bit more money for the next device and add VRR. As Valve commented, they aimed at a very competitive price point with the low end version and were surprised, that the high end model hat such a success - I guess I wasn't the only one who figured out, that one's existing library plays into the total cost of ownership

    TLDR: If you have a Steam game library already, it's a great value, so don't miss out because of some specs - try to get your hands on one and try it out!
    don't get me wrong, I absolutely want a device like the steam deck, or even the steamdeck itself if VRR displays came out either as an new model, or a afterparty mod. but I find VRR to be a necessity for me, as it for me would also serve as a content consuming device, and judder is nauseating for me, and VRR is really the only think that can conveniently solve that. and as a gaming machine, I certainly couldn't stand limiting to 40fps. I realize some people can tolerate that, but I myself cannot.

    Leave a comment:


  • slalomsk8er
    replied
    Originally posted by Quackdoc View Post

    is this a cope? It certainly feels like one.

    40 FPS is not NEAR as smooth as 60fps with VRR and dips to within freesync range, or even so long as it isn't often, below. I don't know who thinks that's a better experience but IMO it is certainly not the case at all. not to mention you are still relying on vsync, which can add latency and are wasting some gpu horse power when you can easily exceed it, and if you just crank the settings to get to that range, you can still dip down below causing an even worse experience. or you use triple buffer vsync or mailbox, or whatever the API calls it, in which case you no longer gain the power savings or at least do to a much lesser extent.

    also with VRR you can target 60fps with a lower power profile, so you are still saving power, without loosing the 60fps cap. the defense that is shown ONLY works WITHOUT VRR as he himself states "...especially if your screen refresh is 60hz. This is because you're only actually getting a new frame each 1/60th of a second, so every time you miss, you get a double frame, leading to judder." the entire second part of whats being said is about non VRR displays. this is not an issue with VRR. so while some people may see a rock solid 40hz with no judder better then 42-48hz with no judder I doubt highly the majority of people do.

    I will say 40hz is way better then 30hz, but it's no where close to VRR.

    not to mention, steamdeck could make a nice portable media device, something which is exponentially better with a VRR display. as freesync can play VFR, 24fps and 30fps content without needing to change display refresh rate.

    and to top it all off, it's not like VRR and 40fps lock.

    4k doesn't make sense for a gaming handled, VRR does especially on a low powered gaming device. and the lack of it, regardless of reason, sucks a lot, and is enough to make me not purchase the device.
    I just got mine. Your reasoning is nice and well but I really enjoy my new toy and I think you will miss out. Let me tell you the best value for the bug is that I already have, 44 games that are certified to run great and 107 games that maybe need some interaction with the touchscreen, in my library. Because of this value proposition, I think they could easily ask for a bit more money for the next device and add VRR. As Valve commented, they aimed at a very competitive price point with the low end version and were surprised, that the high end model hat such a success - I guess I wasn't the only one who figured out, that one's existing library plays into the total cost of ownership

    TLDR: If you have a Steam game library already, it's a great value, so don't miss out because of some specs - try to get your hands on one and try it out!

    Leave a comment:


  • Quackdoc
    replied
    Originally posted by ezst036 View Post
    I really hope we get a SteamOS ISO soon.
    holoiso gets pretty close, it isn't official, but hey, it is linux afterall

    https://github.com/theVakhovskeIsTaken/holoiso

    Leave a comment:


  • ezst036
    replied
    I really hope we get a SteamOS ISO soon.

    Leave a comment:

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