SDL2 Reverts Its Wayland Preference - Goes Back To X11 Default

[Vermilion]

It's a wayland problem in the sense that if you use wayland, you'll get that issue. The blame game is not really relevant. If you get more input lag in wayland, then who's fault it is doesn't fix the issue that you get more lag in wayland.

What kind of logical reasoning is that? (could it be even called that?!).
Bug report:

amdvlk+Wayland: good

radv+Wayland: bad

RealNC: Oh Wayland bad! X11 good!

[Vermilion]

This is a fucking lie.

Was wondering how come the title mentioned Wayland yet you didn't link your issue sooner. Guess I needed more patience.

Countless people discussed that content with you for the past months, and how most of it doesn't make sense from a Display protocol's perspective. At this point I'm convinced you're just being a troll and a spammer.

[aufkrawall]

Bug report:

amdvlk+Wayland: good

That isn't correct, amdvlk can't do proper fifo vsync present with fps<refresh rate, even though backbuffer queue length of 3 is forced via DXVK on both Windows and Xorg (and Wayland present will be stuttery broken mess anyway with that driver). Bug report for this is rotting nicely (great job, AMD!).

[Nocifer]

This is a fucking lie.

I love how you're so deluded that you actually link this thing again and again and again as if it's something other than proof to the rest of the world of how (yet again) you got publicly ridiculed and summarily dismissed by the Wayland developers.

It's a wayland problem in the sense that if you use wayland, you'll get that issue. The blame game is not really relevant. If you get more input lag in wayland, then who's fault it is doesn't fix the issue that you get more lag in wayland.

It doesn't fix the issue, but it does point you to the direction of who is responsible to do so. The blame game is entirely relevant in such a case, unless you think it's acceptable practice to blame other people for your own blunders.

The end result is the same. Doesn't matter who's fault it is, really. Mesa has some issues, nvidia's blob has even more issues, so using wayland has issues and hurts adoption.

What a terrifically simplistic way to look at things. It's like saying, it doesn't matter that company X doesn't make Linux drivers for its products even though it could, in the end it's Linux that has these issues, so Linux is at fault because it's a feature-incomplete (P)OS - and who cares if it's beyond its power and or jurisdiction to actually do something about company X. Hmm, but I guess I already knew there are people out there who think like that.

[Myownfriend]

It's a wayland problem in the sense that if you use wayland, you'll get that issue. The blame game is not really relevant. If you get more input lag in wayland, then who's fault it is doesn't fix the issue that you get more lag in wayland.

They're saying it's not a problem with Wayland, not that it's not a problem for Wayland.

The end result is the same. Doesn't matter who's fault it is, really. Mesa has some issues, nvidia's blob has even more issues, so using wayland has issues and hurts adoption.

Sure, both can hurt adoption but finding where the problem is and being honest about where that problem is is pretty important. Saying "wayland isn't ready and shouldn't replace X11" because of an issue with a specific driver just doesn't make sense. The Mesa issue requires no changes from Wayland.

Plus while the problem is being made out to look worse than it is by leaving out information. For example..

The issue is that retroarch tries to reduce latency. Other games or game-like just use whatever they're given, in this case 4 swapchain images. In retroarch you can configure the swapchain size. But it doesn't work in this case. Even if you set it to 2, you get 4.

Sure, you could reduce latency by reducing the swapchain, but the actually numbers show that even with the larger swapchain, RADV in Wayland outperforms both RADV and AMDVLK with composited X by up to 21%. Disabling compositing on X reduces latency dramatically (31% in RADV and 43% in AMDVLK) which is enough to beat the latency in Weston and Kwin Wayland on RADV but that would get you frame tearing. On the other hand, AMDVLK has the same latency with Kwin Wayland as it does in Uncomposited X.

So by saying "X at least allows you to disable compositing to get less latency" when comparing it to Wayland, it can be read with an invisible "than Wayland" appended to the end. In truth, the only thing you can universally append at the end of that is "than it gets with compositing enabled".

[Myownfriend]

Why does it matter if he codes? Design decisions that matter if you code are those internal to a project, not to an end user. If a design decision impacts end user then nobody gives a shit if he can code or not.

He's making a judgement about the design decisions of a protocol. That's not end user territory. End users don't use protocols directly, programmers do. End users use it via the software that programmers make.

He believes, for example, that Wayland should have protocols built into it that enable a client to access the buffers of other clients and the compositor even though Wayland clients already have ways of doing that. Clients can do both of those things and more with Pipewire and it's done in a way that work for both Wayland and X11 sessions.

An end user would get the same result whether or not capture is done via Pipewire or via a Wayland or X11 extension, but birdie's pissed that it's not part of Wayland.

He's also argued that a shared object isn't actually a shared object if only one thing decides to use it. Dude just doesn't know what he's talking about.

In fact that's probably the issue here, since Wayland developers (those who develop the protocol I mean) are a bunch of retards who thinks the world revolves around their computing needs and reject any sensible feature request that other users want out of their display server/protocol because they use it on X11.

Claiming "it's not needed" makes them a bunch of lunatic fringe fucks.

How come so many anti-wayland people can't help but expose themselves for being shitty people? You're using ableist slurs and I've seen others randomly rant about SJWs and the LGBT community... in a discussion about Wayland.

Claiming "it's not needed" makes them a bunch of lunatic fringe fucks.

And this is why I decided to mention the thing about a Wayland screen capture protocol, it's literally not needed. Don't see how that makes people a bunch of lunatic fringe fucks for not feeling the need to make something that isn't needed.

[birdie]

Was wondering how come the title mentioned Wayland yet you didn't link your issue sooner. Guess I needed more patience.

Countless people discussed that content with you for the past months, and how most of it doesn't make sense from a Display protocol's perspective. At this point I'm convinced you're just being a troll and a spammer.

Countless things (for a start X11 has a single server, for Wayland we now have what? two dozens?) prove that whatever developers have on their minds is as remote from being rational and sensical as possible. If requiring common sense and much needed common API is trolling, then something might be wrong with someone's grey matter.

So please kindly never mention me again and never reply to my posts, OK?

[tildearrow]

The reason why Gnome night light doesn't work on Nvidia hardware in Wayland is because the driver doesn't support GAMMA_LUT

Couldn't the GNOME team just use a shader as a workaround? Night light is nothing more than lowering the blue and green channels...

[tildearrow]

So please kindly never mention us again and never reply to our posts, OK?

We would be grateful if you did that.

I agree on many of your points, but your extremely toxic and aggressive attitude doesn't help.

[Myownfriend]

Countless things (for a start X11 has a single server, for Wayland we now have what? two dozens?)

X11 now has a single server...sort of. If XWayland and XQuarts are part of the Xserver git but they are different from Xorg. Before Xorg was Xfree86 which is what Xorg forked from and before that there was a number of other implementations that you could even find on the Wikipedia like Cygwin/X, Exceed, MKS X/Server, Reflection X, X-Win32, Xming, WeirdX, Android X Server, etc.

I'm not sure that Wayland has anywhere near two dozen compositors but maybe I'm mistaken.

You should really watch Keith Packard's A Political History of X.

...prove that whatever developers have on their minds is as remote from being rational and sensical as possible.

If requiring common sense and much needed common API is trolling, then something might be wrong with someone's grey matter.

Again, you really don't have enough knowledge of this stuff to be any sort of authority on what's sensible about this stuff. You don't seem to have the same sentiment about the 50 or so X Window Managers that literally replace part of Xorg.

So please kindly never mention me again and never reply to my posts, OK?

I don't see why they should comply. You could also leave since you don't really wanna be here anyway and don't like this community.