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SDL2 Reverts Its Wayland Preference - Goes Back To X11 Default

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  • Myownfriend
    replied
    Originally posted by RealNC View Post
    It's a wayland problem in the sense that if you use wayland, you'll get that issue. The blame game is not really relevant. If you get more input lag in wayland, then who's fault it is doesn't fix the issue that you get more lag in wayland.
    They're saying it's not a problem with Wayland, not that it's not a problem for Wayland.

    Originally posted by RealNC View Post
    The end result is the same. Doesn't matter who's fault it is, really. Mesa has some issues, nvidia's blob has even more issues, so using wayland has issues and hurts adoption.
    Sure, both can hurt adoption but finding where the problem is and being honest about where that problem is is pretty important. Saying "wayland isn't ready and shouldn't replace X11" because of an issue with a specific driver just doesn't make sense. The Mesa issue requires no changes from Wayland.

    Plus while the problem is being made out to look worse than it is by leaving out information. For example..

    Originally posted by RealNC View Post
    The issue is that retroarch tries to reduce latency. Other games or game-like just use whatever they're given, in this case 4 swapchain images. In retroarch you can configure the swapchain size. But it doesn't work in this case. Even if you set it to 2, you get 4.
    Sure, you could reduce latency by reducing the swapchain, but the actually numbers show that even with the larger swapchain, RADV in Wayland outperforms both RADV and AMDVLK with composited X by up to 21%. Disabling compositing on X reduces latency dramatically (31% in RADV and 43% in AMDVLK) which is enough to beat the latency in Weston and Kwin Wayland on RADV but that would get you frame tearing. On the other hand, AMDVLK has the same latency with Kwin Wayland as it does in Uncomposited X.

    So by saying "X at least allows you to disable compositing to get less latency" when comparing it to Wayland, it can be read with an invisible "than Wayland" appended to the end. In truth, the only thing you can universally append at the end of that is "than it gets with compositing enabled".

    Leave a comment:


  • Nocifer
    replied
    Originally posted by birdie View Post
    I love how you're so deluded that you actually link this thing again and again and again as if it's something other than proof to the rest of the world of how (yet again) you got publicly ridiculed and summarily dismissed by the Wayland developers.

    Originally posted by RealNC View Post
    It's a wayland problem in the sense that if you use wayland, you'll get that issue. The blame game is not really relevant. If you get more input lag in wayland, then who's fault it is doesn't fix the issue that you get more lag in wayland.
    It doesn't fix the issue, but it does point you to the direction of who is responsible to do so. The blame game is entirely relevant in such a case, unless you think it's acceptable practice to blame other people for your own blunders.

    Originally posted by RealNC View Post
    The end result is the same. Doesn't matter who's fault it is, really. Mesa has some issues, nvidia's blob has even more issues, so using wayland has issues and hurts adoption.
    What a terrifically simplistic way to look at things. It's like saying, it doesn't matter that company X doesn't make Linux drivers for its products even though it could, in the end it's Linux that has these issues, so Linux is at fault because it's a feature-incomplete (P)OS - and who cares if it's beyond its power and or jurisdiction to actually do something about company X. Hmm, but I guess I already knew there are people out there who think like that.

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  • aufkrawall
    replied
    Originally posted by Vermilion View Post
    Bug report:
    amdvlk+Wayland: good
    That isn't correct, amdvlk can't do proper fifo vsync present with fps<refresh rate, even though backbuffer queue length of 3 is forced via DXVK on both Windows and Xorg (and Wayland present will be stuttery broken mess anyway with that driver). Bug report for this is rotting nicely (great job, AMD!).

    Leave a comment:


  • Vermilion
    replied
    Originally posted by birdie View Post
    Was wondering how come the title mentioned Wayland yet you didn't link your issue sooner. Guess I needed more patience.

    Countless people discussed that content with you for the past months, and how most of it doesn't make sense from a Display protocol's perspective. At this point I'm convinced you're just being a troll and a spammer.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vermilion
    replied
    Originally posted by RealNC View Post
    It's a wayland problem in the sense that if you use wayland, you'll get that issue. The blame game is not really relevant. If you get more input lag in wayland, then who's fault it is doesn't fix the issue that you get more lag in wayland.
    What kind of logical reasoning is that? (could it be even called that?!).
    Bug report:
    amdvlk+Wayland: good
    radv+Wayland: bad
    RealNC: Oh Wayland bad! X11 good!

    Leave a comment:


  • Vistaus
    replied
    Originally posted by Volta View Post

    It turns out mediocre nvidia driver is still POS and software like Steam were not updated to Wayland, yet. You could at least read the article.
    Or you could enable emoticons to see when someone is being facetious.

    Leave a comment:


  • -MacNuke-
    replied
    Originally posted by RealNC View Post
    Yep. But you disable compositing on Xorg because of this for games. (You can set your window manager to automatically do this when you switch games to fullscreen.) You can't disable compositing on wayland though.
    But even with compositing Wayland is as fast, apart from the single issue with radv that does not happen with amdvlk.

    Leave a comment:


  • RealNC
    replied
    Originally posted by MrCooper View Post
    That's a Mesa issue, not a Wayland one.
    The end result is the same. Doesn't matter who's fault it is, really. Mesa has some issues, nvidia's blob has even more issues, so using wayland has issues and hurts adoption.

    Leave a comment:


  • RealNC
    replied
    Originally posted by -MacNuke- View Post
    Fun to see that the result of the tests linked in the issue shows that a modern, composited desktop on Xorg is way slower than a Wayland desktop.
    Yep. But you disable compositing on Xorg because of this for games. (You can set your window manager to automatically do this when you switch games to fullscreen.) You can't disable compositing on wayland though.

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  • RealNC
    replied
    Originally posted by Vermilion View Post
    Doesn't the linked page literally say: It works with amdvlk but not radv, with Wayland and on the same hardware? How is that a Wayland problem?
    It's a wayland problem in the sense that if you use wayland, you'll get that issue. The blame game is not really relevant. If you get more input lag in wayland, then who's fault it is doesn't fix the issue that you get more lag in wayland.

    Leave a comment:

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