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Fedora 37 Looks To Deprecate Legacy BIOS Support

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  • This isn't really about "bleeding edge" and dropping support for hardware this is just a couple of years old, though. UEFI started becoming a thing in 2006 or so, and by 2011, most new x86 hardware supported it. The current proposal is to partially drop support in Fedora 37 and fully drop it in Fedora 38. That is is still quite a while - at the end of 2023!

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    • Originally posted by risho View Post
      Then don't use fedora. Why the fuck would you use a distro whose mission statement is bleeding edge and breaking backwards compatibility for the sake of moving forward if you needed legacy support for some random hardware?
      Simple. Those who have been in this industry for more than a few years, will recognize the unique point of the technology curve where we're at today. History lesson: for four decades, basically the entire 70's, 80's, 90's, and 2000's, a personal computer was out of date at 18 months, and was incontestably obsolete by 3 years old. CPU clock speeds, bus speeds, and memory capacity were doubling or more in a matter of months. A 3 year old PC flat out was not capable of running current software - people dumped them for scrap or gave them away for free because they had zero residual value.

      Things slowed down considerably starting in the 2010's, for a variety of reasons. The result is that here in 2022, you can buy a brand new 2022 PC with 4 x86-64 cores, 8 GB of RAM, and 1 TB of storage. Or you can have a decade old PC from 2012.... that has 4 x86-64 cores, 8 GB of RAM, and 1 TB of storage. There is no longer a need for folks to trash a PC after three years. For those on a budget, a decade old machine can run the very latest OS and productivity applications with ease.

      As a data point, my home server is a decade old, from 2012, and it has 16 cores and 128 GB of RAM with 48 TB of storage. It is also immune to ALL of the spectre/meltdown vulns of recent years! The mobo (Supermicro H8SGL-F) only supports BIOS and not EFI. Asking someone to trash a secure reliable 16 core 128 GB machine because it's not bleeding edge enough is asinine and is the kind of mindset responsible for the global e-waste crisis.

      Inserting artificial and arbitrary requirements that force users to trash perfectly reasonable PC's in the name of "we only support teh bleeding 3dge!11" is silly and condescending, and it highlights your lack of tenure in this industry.
      Last edited by torsionbar28; 06 April 2022, 12:28 PM.

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      • That sucks for people who are on a limited income and can't afford a new computer. My laptop is a Dell Inspiron made in 2015. It has an early version of UEFI that is not supported by some distros, including Fedora, so I keep it on legacy to get them to install.

        I'm retired, and social security doesn't pay enough for me to buy a new computer, and I still make more than many people - I get twice the federal median. And what about other countries, where wages are even lower than hare?.

        I guess Fedora only wants users who have a well paying job.

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        • Originally posted by darkoverlordofdata View Post
          I'm retired, and social security doesn't pay enough for me to buy a new computer [...] And what about other countries, where wages are even lower than hare?
          In both cases secondary market is the answer. UEFI is not really a luxury feature, a lot of cheap hardware has it. A PC I bought used for $50 in ~2010 had UEFI support. Didn't take a well-paying job.

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          • Originally posted by Avamander View Post
            UEFI is not really a luxury feature, a lot of cheap hardware has it. A PC I bought used for $50 in ~2010 had UEFI support.
            It's not a matter of luxury. In fact, it's the exact opposite in the real world. The cheapest bottom dollar throwaway peecees often have the latest cutting edge technology. It's the more expensive, better built, longer lasting server and workstation grade hardware that takes a few years more to incorporate new features. The development and qualification process takes longer on the server and workstation gear, and the software ecosystem moves more slowly there as well, because stability and reliability are more important in those markets than cutting edge features. Plus the vendor support lifecycle is longer on server and workstation equipment because people expect more return on their investment when they buy this higher end more expensive stuff.

            Case in point, your $50 PC in 2010 had EFI, but many server and workstation boards did not have it until 2014. The irony here is that it's those server and workstation boards that are more likely to be still in daily use today, perhaps with a new owner due to the robust secondary market, while your $50 UEFI pc is in the landfill.
            Last edited by torsionbar28; 06 April 2022, 12:30 PM.

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            • Originally posted by RahulSundaram View Post
              “...for instance, VESA support can be removed from the distro.”
              This is another thing that doesn't make too much sense to me; isn't VESA support almost entirely in mature upstream projects, primarily the kernel? I understand there are userspace utilities related to this, but again, those are mature upstream projects with working rpmbuilds. Am I mistaken about this?

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              • Originally posted by microcode View Post

                This is another thing that doesn't make too much sense to me; isn't VESA support almost entirely in mature upstream projects, primarily the kernel? I understand there are userspace utilities related to this, but again, those are mature upstream projects with working rpmbuilds. Am I mistaken about this?
                Fedora developers involved in these are often responsible for the code in the upstream projects in the first place. The distribution work isn't merely just having working rpmbuilds, it is also supporting the installer code, bootloader, plymouth etc. They are also regularly making changes to more general upstream projects in response to distribution integration requirements. The last example I know of is, https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...FBDEV-Planning
                Last edited by RahulSundaram; 06 April 2022, 12:50 PM.

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                • If they’re dropping bios support then they should start using Systemd-boot as well

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by torsionbar28 View Post
                    Simple. Those who have been in this industry for more than a few years, will recognize the unique point of the technology curve where we're at today. History lesson: for four decades, basically the entire 70's, 80's, 90's, and 2000's, a personal computer was out of date at 18 months, and was incontestably obsolete by 3 years old. CPU clock speeds, bus speeds, and memory capacity were doubling or more in a matter of months. A 3 year old PC flat out was not capable of running current software - people dumped them for scrap or gave them away for free because they had zero residual value.

                    Things slowed down considerably starting in the 2010's, for a variety of reasons. The result is that here in 2022, you can buy a brand new 2022 PC with 4 x86-64 cores, 8 GB of RAM, and 1 TB of storage. Or you can have a decade old PC from 2012.... that has 4 x86-64 cores, 8 GB of RAM, and 1 TB of storage. There is no longer a need for folks to trash a PC after three years. For those on a budget, a decade old machine can run the very latest OS and productivity applications with ease.

                    As a data point, my home server is a decade old, from 2012, and it has 16 cores and 128 GB of RAM with 48 TB of storage. It is also immune to ALL of the spectre/meltdown vulns of recent years! The mobo (Supermicro H8SGL-F) only supports BIOS and not EFI. Asking someone to trash a secure reliable 16 core 128 GB machine because it's not bleeding edge enough is asinine and is the kind of mindset responsible for the global e-waste crisis.

                    Inserting artificial and arbitrary requirements that force users to trash perfectly reasonable PC's in the name of "we only support teh bleeding 3dge!11" is silly and condescending, and it highlights your lack of tenure in this industry.
                    cool story bro. then use one of the 10+ other distros that aren't bleeding edge backwards compatability breaking fedora and quit crying. no one is forcing you to throw away your old computer.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by scottishduck View Post
                      If they’re dropping bios support then they should start using Systemd-boot as well
                      Unironically, yes.

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