A Battle For Good Open-Source Game Graphics?

[Svartalf]

Me too, I honestly was not trying to fan them, just trying to get a perspective on why a few people here seemed so angry about FPS gaming engines.

Because the bulk of them are derivative things that're largely lame.

I am the lead developer of Alien Arena http://red.planetarena.org

Heh... Nice game. I've enjoyed playing it in the past with other people.

I looked at Dragonlord's project, and it looks like there is a great start, which makes it all that much more confusing as to why this argument is taking place. He seems to have the ability to make the kind of engine he wants, so there is no need to lament others for not doing so.

It's because many, if not most, of the FOSS FPS game making crowd aren't really innovative. You're not one of them, and complaints about "yet another FOSS FPS" are not reflective of YOUR endeavors- and shouldn't be taken that way.

[Irritant]

Ahhhh well i must say i have had a good wob of fun playing your game .

Radiants strengths are also its greatest weakness. It is very capable but to the degree that it has a terrible learning curve compared to say unreal or hammer. Same goes for blender unfortunately enough . Radiant has also branched off a bit. You get qe,gtk,net,dark,zero radiants to name a few and they all do basically the same damn thing.

Yeah I couldn't agree more. I was a longtime Worldcraft user, and when I switched over to Radiant, it took quite some time to be productive again. Blender is still something I never quite get used to, at least in the animation dept. It's very difficult IMO, the interface is very confusing. Still Blender is a fine program, I really liked it once I got the hang of it.

[L33F3R]

Ahhhh well i must say i have had a good wob of fun playing your game .

Radiants strengths are also its greatest weakness. It is very capable but to the degree that it has a terrible learning curve compared to say unreal or hammer. Same goes for blender unfortunately enough . Radiant has also branched off a bit. You get qe,gtk,net,dark,zero radiants to name a few and they all do basically the same damn thing.

[Irritant]

i hope the flames die down. Irritant do you have examples of stuff you have worked on?

Me too, I honestly was not trying to fan them, just trying to get a perspective on why a few people here seemed so angry about FPS gaming engines.

I am the lead developer of Alien Arena http://red.planetarena.org

I looked at Dragonlord's project, and it looks like there is a great start, which makes it all that much more confusing as to why this argument is taking place. He seems to have the ability to make the kind of engine he wants, so there is no need to lament others for not doing so.

Our engine, much like many other engines is being developed for a specific game, and we are a very small team of four, so we don't have the resources/time to worry about making things easier for others to use our engine. As it stands, I've already posted that the only tools you need to work with it are Blender, Gimp, Radiant, and a sound editor. So there isn't really a need for us to create new tools when there are already free ones in place to use(though we did make a radiant of our own for the game). Other than basic physics, most of the flexiblity would come from the game code(meaning you can really make it do most anything). As I stated before, there have been a number of interesting projects created from id Tech that isn't FPS(UFO AI for example).

[L33F3R]

i hope the flames die down. Irritant do you have examples of stuff you have worked on?

[Irritant]

@Svaltalf -

I read back on all of my posts and, I was certainly not being "hostile". I simply requested for a couple of posters to be more polite and courteous after some destructively critical remarks directed towards FOSS FPS games. I didn't take them to be directed at my work specifically, so it wasn't personal. I just don't like to see this type of discourse when discussing how to improve things. I simply wanted to see some things toned down a bit, not trying to start a flame war.

So "I lose"? I didn't realize I was in a contest. I asked him if English was his first language because on a couple of occasions it seemed as if he completely misunderstood something, and because well, English isn't the first language of alot of people. How in the world is asking that offensive? Alot of times a language barrier can cause misunderstandings. I have no idea where DragonLord is originally from.

I am not going to continue to argue about whether or not FOSS FPS games are badly designed or not, but I will mention at least in the case of the engine I personally work on, every asset for the engine can be created with readily available programs(radiant, Blender, and Gimp). With those three programs, and a sound editor of choice, you can make anything the engine needs.

As for shouting matches, I have not once shouted in this forum. So please refrain from including me as a participant in them.

[Svartalf]

So asking people to be courteous is insulting? Alright then. Listen, I'm not trying to insult anyone, but I do feel that a couple people here need some perspective/reality check.

Yourself included, I'm afraid.

You didn't "ask someone to be courteous". You took a hostile position back about 3 or so screens back worth of commentary- and have been escalating the commentary with Dragonlord. Perhaps some of his word choices are not the best in the world, but in the end, he DOES have something of a valid point.

"Badly designed" isn't offensive unless someone's trying to be defensive about something. Fact is, most of the FPS' are badly designed. Seriously. Regardless of whether the stuff you're working on is or isn't and I believe that is what Dragonlord's referring to. Moreover, most of the FPS' that we have in the FOSS space don't have decent asset toolchains to produce asset content FOR the engine in the first place. That's part of "badly designed", if you want the pro's take on things there.

Now the next question isn't meant to be offensive, but is English your first language?

You lose right there. If you're asking that you're being offensive- out of the gate.

I only ask because it seems you've misconstrued some thing's I have said, as if there may have been a language barrier. Forgive me if this offends you, I just want to make sure that is or is not the case when I reply.

As have you misconstrued things. You might want to cool your jets there a bit, friend. Your handle is becoming entirely to apt for words right at the moment.

So you've established that you are someone who "does something". I'm just curious, what projects are you working on, or released? I'd be interested in following their progress. You seem to have some ambitious ideas and goals, and if they are what you claim, then it would be something I would be interested in paying attention to.

How about Googling for it, hm? It's not at all hard for someone to find his stuff. Try "Dragonlord" coupled with "game engine" and try out the first link...you'll get better results than resorting to shouting matches.

And, as someone else who's "doing something", it does get a bit old with all the armchair people griping about this and that and contributing little to the discussion or efforts. I can see where Dragonlord might get a bit snippy at times. I know I do from time to time because of it.

[Irritant]

In fact you are the one not getting anything. You insult all the time somebody WHO DOES SOMETHING! So if you still want to continue labeling me a whining fart who does nothing do your math first. And with this I won't be answering to you anymore. If you want to be an asshole so be it but don't expect anything from those doing something.

Period.

So asking people to be courteous is insulting? Alright then. Listen, I'm not trying to insult anyone, but I do feel that a couple people here need some perspective/reality check.

Now the next question isn't meant to be offensive, but is English your first language? I only ask because it seems you've misconstrued some thing's I have said, as if there may have been a language barrier. Forgive me if this offends you, I just want to make sure that is or is not the case when I reply.

So you've established that you are someone who "does something". I'm just curious, what projects are you working on, or released? I'd be interested in following their progress. You seem to have some ambitious ideas and goals, and if they are what you claim, then it would be something I would be interested in paying attention to.

Thanks -

[Dragonlord]

It's not about hurting my feelings, you miss the point, which is, acting like a petulant child is not going to get you what you want. If you want something to be done by someone(or some group), throwing derogatory remarks at them or their work isn't going to accomplish it.

Right now I see alot of temper tantrums being thrown because the current crop of games doesn't meet what they consider to be "good". Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one, doesn't mean anyone is right or wrong. If you really want to make a difference in the Linux gaming world, then follow this simple rule: Less complaining, more action. If you don't have the talent or ability to take action, then at least be nice to those who do

In fact you are the one not getting anything. You insult all the time somebody WHO DOES SOMETHING! So if you still want to continue labeling me a whining fart who does nothing do your math first. And with this I won't be answering to you anymore. If you want to be an asshole so be it but don't expect anything from those doing something.

Period.

[L33F3R]

Go ahead, try and find a reason why we can't get everything required for a decent game that you could actually sell, I say Phoronix should start organizing it, maybe even go and ask around the other linux gaming sites about it, hell, even the Mac ones, they're almost as hard up for games as we are so I'm sure you'll get some help from them.

Call it "Phoronix And The Quest For The $5 Game".

I think its perfectly viable aswell. Although you need to unite 2 camps of people that have different motives. Not everyone is going to use linux all the time or use open source software. Indoors in particular are usually done in a level editor because they are painstakingly slow to make in modeling programs. Problem with linux? all you have is radiant. Blender is very powerful but it took me a very long time to wrap my head around it. It is also the only decent solution for linux modeling becides maya which sucks for polygon modeling and softimage which sucks period.

But i can see the promise in a customized engine alone as a phoronix benchmarking tool. You would be able to control different variables like shaders, polygons and so on. Because all of these open source games we have out are ID based they carry with them a certain bias.