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KDE/GNOME Wayland vs. X.Org Radeon Linux Gaming Performance

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  • hax0r
    replied
    I have latest KDE on of the PCs with Nvidia card running on Xorg, Kwin for me is always problematic and for G-SYNC to work I need to manually babysit Kwin and press (alt+shift+f12) everytime when launching a game to disable compositing and make G-SYNC work again. So sad that in 2021 they can't figure out how to reliably unredirect fullscreen apps. Hoping to see KDE crushed in Nvidia tests.

    It's always KDE that's having problems, when it comes to just about anything: stability, wayland support, samba performance, micro stuttering issues, multi monitor support, touchpad support, dated UI, laggy System Settings, ugly stock theme and icons, bad looking notifications & panels, glitchy panel/icons positions, badly designed start menu, bad hamburger menu design in apps like dolphin, some menus deeply nested and hidden, rotting Qt5, confusing PIM design, baloo indexer has always been garbage, akonadi's design has been a disaster.

    GNOME's gvfs is so much better than kio, nautilus is so much more pleasant when browsing smb shares and performance is great, mutter peformance has always dominated kwin, but the tablet like interface and wasted screen space by top bar sucks badly in gnome. CuteFish and helloSystem have shown that it is possible to design better UI, KDE should take notes.

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  • finalzone
    replied
    Originally posted by ireri View Post
    Wayland is way away from perfect, but it is what we have if we want HDR or proper multimonitor support, among other today's stuff.
    HDR implementation is a mess and a nightmare in term of standardization even for both Microsoft and Apple. The consortium behind HDR needs to fix these issues first. See
    https://petapixel.com/2020/11/09/the...o-clean-it-up/
    https://professional.dolby.com/gamin...w-to-solve-it/
    https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-t...is-a-hot-mess/

    Leave a comment:


  • Myownfriend
    replied
    Originally posted by ireri View Post

    Who said anything about it being ready or not
    You did. I quoted you: "Would be great if I could use it for everything already! But alas, it is not ready yet, so in the meantime X.Org…"

    Originally posted by ireri View Post
    I'm not a software developer, I can't care less about Wayand's readiness. If app's devs believe that there are reasons for not switching their work to Wayland, even when the protocol is 100% “ready” (whatever that means, because Wayland doesn't pursue feature parity with X)… Then Wayland and all its readiness is worthless.
    That's not a good indicator of anything. For some applications the lack of Wayland support is because distributions that use Wayland by default or use DEs that support it are a fraction of a small percentage of their userbase (Linux users) and XWayland already allows their applications to work in Wayland sessions anyway. These benchmarks and the ones in other X11 vs Wayland benchmarks this week show that even if you're using applications through XWayland, you're still getting performance and power usage advantages.

    In some cases the application already supports Wayland, it just doesn't launch in it by default without passing some variables to the application. That's the case with pretty much all Electron apps like Discord and VSCode. Spotify is apparently really close to running in Wayland, too, but they run some unneeded X specific code that prevents it from being done through the usual Electron variables. That's also true of games that use SDL2.

    Most applications made with a recent version of QT or GTK already have Wayland support but they're not compiled with support for them because the devs aren't testing for them.

    Originally posted by ireri View Post
    But for all its advantages, it also has some non-trivial disadvantages,
    Like?

    Originally posted by ireri View Post
    very few other have invested in their Wayland support; be it applications
    Already commented on that. More applications support it than people think and some just need to be pressured to make the changes needed to support it.

    Originally posted by ireri View Post
    compatibility layers like Wine
    Collabora just made a Wayland driver for Wine available.

    Originally posted by ireri View Post
    package distribution instruments like AppImage.
    I wasn't aware of any Wayland-related issues with Applmage so I just looked it up. I had no idea that probonopd is behind AppImage. He wrote one of the dumbest, but long-lasting anti-Wayland threads on internet. It's filled with misinformation and conspiracy theories and most of his personal complaints have to do with Wayland not being compatible with X11. In the comments he evens states that because Wayland intends to replace X11, it should be 100% compatible with X11 applications with no changes. An impossible bar to meet.

    For example, and this probably relates to what you're saying, he complains that AppImages for QT applications don't work in Wayland unless they use the QT Wayland plugin. The issue he links to says that it applies to all QT applications but he acts like it's a specific incompatibility with AppImage. He states that shipping the application with just the XCB plugin and making the application run in XWayland is a workaround. So in other words, he expects QT applications to support Wayland even without the plugin that lets it support Wayland but he has no issue with X11 support requiring a plugin. There isn't actually any issues with Wayland and AppImages.

    Since I link to that thread there's some other things I should point out.

    Most of his other complaints either no longer are true, were never true, are unreasonable, or are issues that he has with Wayland based off misinformation or political reasons. He was corrected in the comments, too, but he never decided to take any of the issues off his list which just leads to more people being misinformed. It's lead to other commenters in that thread and around the internet to think that applications naturally have X11 support and that it's an unreasonable and weird requirement by Wayland that it needs to be explicitly supported.

    He's also very vocal about screen capture not being possible in Wayland sessions which isn't true at all. He actually knows that but his complaint is that it's done with xdg-desktop-portals which he considers to be a Redhat/Flatpak technology that was only made with Flatpak in mind. He was informed that while it's made as part of the Flatpak project it doesn't require the use of Flatpaks. When someone mentioned that it works for Snaps and applications that aren't sandboxed at all, he still decided to say "So it is correct to say that "XDG" desktop portals were developed caring only for Flatpak and Snap? Which would prpove my point: These people simply don't care for anything else." It's a capable developer but still very ignorant and set in his ways.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mario Junior
    replied
    Originally posted by plasticbomb1986 View Post

    Could the both of you at least mention which amd GPU are you talking about?
    RX550.

    Leave a comment:


  • aufkrawall
    replied
    Originally posted by rabcor View Post
    Really? I was rather surprised with the results for hitman on KDE, wtf is going on there? Why is it performing so awfully on KDE?
    Pretty sure I could run the benchmark right now and it would run equally fast on Plasma Xorg vs. Windows with DXVK...

    Leave a comment:


  • Quackdoc
    replied
    Originally posted by FireBurn View Post
    With an AMD APU/AMD 6800M PRIME setup, Wayland is just atrocious
    wayland has been fine for me as a prime setup, better than xorg was at least, but I have very different hardware

    Leave a comment:


  • FireBurn
    replied
    With an AMD APU/AMD 6800M PRIME setup, Wayland is just atrocious

    Leave a comment:


  • Venemo
    replied
    Originally posted by RejectModernity View Post
    If only Michael could test games with native wayland support, like dota 2 on opengl. Just add SDL_VIDEODRIVER=wayland at the launch options.
    I don't recommend that yet. Several optimizations are specific to XWayland and don't kick in for 'pure' Wayland clients yet.

    Leave a comment:


  • rabcor
    replied
    Originally posted by Alexmitter View Post
    Absolutely zero surprises here.
    Really? I was rather surprised with the results for hitman on KDE, wtf is going on there? Why is it performing so awfully on KDE?

    This is so bad it's making me seriously consider switching to another DE.
    Also I would have liked to see benchmarks done on Sway too since we're working with Wayland environments.

    Leave a comment:


  • ireri
    replied
    Originally posted by Myownfriend View Post

    Wayland is ready. You'll never be able to do everything in Wayland if applications that need to support Wayland don't support Wayland. It's not a matter of Wayland not being ready. With the addition of XWayland, which was used for all of the software in this benchmark, the vast majority of applications run in a Wayland session. I don't mean like 80%, I mean 99.999%.
    Who said anything about it being ready or not, I'm not a software developer, I can't care less about Wayand's readiness. If app's devs believe that there are reasons for not switching their work to Wayland, even when the protocol is 100% “ready” (whatever that means, because Wayland doesn't pursue feature parity with X)… Then Wayland and all its readiness is worthless.

    Let's be honest, Linux desperately needs Wayland, not for tomorrow or even now, for yesterday! But for all its advantages, it also has some non-trivial disadvantages, is not mere laziness that aside from KDE, very few other have invested in their Wayland support; be it applications, or compatibility layers like Wine or package distribution instruments like AppImage.

    Wayland is way away from perfect, but it is what we have if we want HDR or proper multimonitor support, among other today's stuff.

    Leave a comment:

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