Ubuntu 21.10 Radeon Gaming With KDE Plasma vs. GNOME Shell + Wayland vs. X.Org

[Danny3]

considering come crashes and lower performance on kde, i hope valve change their decision for the desktop environment of their incoming game console

Valve made the right decision !
KDE Plasma is a traditional desktop environment which is pretty Windows-like, the OS that more than 90% of the gamers are familiar with.
It's also lightweight and customizable letting everyone tweak it for their own liking.
I think it's the Swiss-knife of Linux desktop environments.
And if someone has to choose between a normal knife and a Swiss-knife, I don't know who in their right mind would not choose the Swiss-knife.
Anyway, it's good that there are more DEs available and everyone can use the one they like.
Freedom to choose is wonderful !

[dec05eba]

Even not running as root there are quite a few things wrong with X11 server general security. Big ones is the fact you cannot do a proper lock screen or proper protection of password entry under X11

X11 already fixed this 20 years ago with XACE and its very trivial to change it to work to your liking

[tildearrow]

X11 already fixed this 20 years ago with XACE and its very trivial to change it to work to your liking

Careful when mentioning XACE. oiaohm once said it was easier to run Weston than to use XACE...

[Fractured]

Once Wayland adds a protocol that allows you to disable vsync the moment gamers will switch. Unfortunately it adds too much latency otherwise in competitive games.

It's a great experience otherwise though for casual games, or just desktop usage (especially if you have multiple monitors).

[oiaohm]

X11 already fixed this 20 years ago with XACE and its very trivial to change it to work to your liking

You never used that beast right. You saw that one video were a person pull a slide of hand. How many people in fact know how X11 input system fully works about 6 people I can list. Bad new that example is a joke.

https://dec05eba.com/2021/09/19/x11-myth-x11-is-not-secure/

This is you right. Little problem picked a single program keylogger. This only uses 1 of the X11 input stacks. Over X11 history there are 4 input stacks applications can use with 3 still active in the current X11 x.org bare metal. To in fact block key logging with XACE you have to set 3 different rules to cover the 3 different input systems. You are done right. Not quite. If you have xace configured and you run 3 different keyloggers all intentionally using the 3 different inputs systems of X11 systems you start finding data bleed due to buffer reuse.

So no xace did not fix the problem keylogger problem 20 years ago. Fixing the most of problem correctly required gutting the x.org X11 input system and remaking it. Why with current day x.org X11 server you can get blocking keylogger to kind of work is libinput replacing most of the historic bug ridden X11 input stacks buffer handling. Yes there are still ways to keylog when restricted by xace or X11 server options if you push the input stacks the right way. Yes libinput starting to fix up X11 bare metal keyboard logging problem comes out of Wayland work. Remember libinput is 2015. Yes the 3 different ways applications can request X11 server provides them with keyboard and mouse information is still not 100 percent bug free when you use them in combination and those bugs allow you to create a global keylogger when you should not be able to. Some of those bugs are written into the X11 protocol as correct behavour. This is the last bit of fixing the X11 server global keylogger problem.

Of course that skips over that by disabling global keylogger under X11 you have also broken global hotkeys.

Xace did not provide the magic bullet people thought it did. With simple demos Xace looks good. It when you start doing more complex programs and you start working out that you have prevent keylogging on one hand but this application need global hotkeys and you have now broken that.

Reality Xace shows you what in theory could be done. In reality to make Xace security useful the X11 protocol need to change like adding proper support for global hotkeys so applications don't need a keylogger to have global hotkey features. Yes this is not the only place the X11 protocol need a change.

X11 with Xace was demoed as possible fixable 20+ years ago. The common mistake is believing Xace fixed the problems and since people believed Xace fixed the problems they did follow though with the process of fixing up the X11 protocol and the x.org X11 server.

[jamdox]

Were there any differences in the frequency of graphical glitches or artifacts? This can be more important than frame rate.

[mirmirmir]

Valve made the right decision !
KDE Plasma is a traditional desktop environment which is pretty Windows-like, the OS that more than 90% of the gamers are familiar with.
It's also lightweight and customizable letting everyone tweak it for their own liking.
I think it's the Swiss-knife of Linux desktop environments.
And if someone has to choose between a normal knife and a Swiss-knife, I don't know who in their right mind would not choose the Swiss-knife.
Anyway, it's good that there are more DEs available and everyone can use the one they like.
Freedom to choose is wonderful !

I pick kitchen knife for kitchen stuff 10/10

[MrCooper]

X11 already fixed this 20 years ago with XACE

I don't think it can fix your desktop session getting exposed if the screen locker client dies.

and its very trivial to change it to work to your liking

XACE is so trivial that an estimated 0.00...x% of X11 users are using it.

[gfunk]

hey guys,
how come proton games are never benchmarked?

how does proton interact with Wayland, does it have to run in xWayland, will it eventually run in pure wayland?

[Danny3]

I pick kitchen knife for kitchen stuff 10/10

And if you want desktop icons or minimize button in Gnome 3, you do what ?
You need to use workarounds and hacks like third party extensions !
That's not the "right tool for the job" point that you want to make.