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Epic Games Announces Easy Anti-Cheat For Linux - Including Wine/Proton

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  • #51
    People in this forum believe that a usb hardware before mouse will help them aimlock, with what feedback? Then just go an buy it and see for your selves that you scammed. Aimlock is based on game engine data about player avatars, the correct way is for the engine not to provide enemy avatar general data to the other players. Instead it can provide avatar graphical data only for the gpu to draw the enemy avatar without the client knowing what it is (obfuscated command stream). Then just resolve anything playing the actual game in server.

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    • #52
      Woohoo! I can finally start playing dead by daylight again!!

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      • #53
        Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post
        Yes I am aware of these systems, Path of Exile/Diabolo also had a similar system where the server trusts the state for the client up until a certain point where the states become so misaligned that the server then tells the client, "hey something is really up with your system so now I am forcing yours state to the be the same the servers".

        What ends up happening is what gamers typically call rubber banding, i.e. suddenly your character pops into a completely different position since on the server you are at point A but your client is at point A + somethng where something is deemed to be so far that you are now out of sync.

        This is also a very simplistic problem, you get even weirder problems where for example the client is in some state that allows something to happen (since they are in a different position) and the server not. Ultimately the ironic problem is such a system has more problems the worse the latency is the worse this experience is because the delta between the server and client happens incredibly frequently.

        In Path of Exile people were complaining about it so much (and I was playing it) that they just added the option to only use the state of the sever so people that did have at least decent enough connection didn't have this problem. Do note that what I am talking about is for non FPS games, the rubber banding that occurs in such a system would be more problematic for FPS so that is why almost no one does it this way, instead FPS games try and track the state of the client and if the clients state appears to be completely unrealistic then they get banned and this is very hard to do well.

        The point you have very fundamental problems that you cannot get around, one is physics and the other one is that you can never trust the client.
        Path of Exile and Diablo problem is not the anti cheat engines I am talking about. Looking for inhuman inputs is not you time sync problem.



        The time sync limit is 50ms anything more than that you get noticeable rubber banding. Yes the server side anti cheat systems normally class 100ms as acceptable miss alignment between server and client. Yes most people who want to lag cheat want more than 100ms and if you are getting 100ms lag the game is generally not playable and you movements should be off because of the high lag.

        Path of Exile is very bad due to game engine logic costs. Please note anti-cheat on server can be run on different servers to the servers running the general engine maths.

        Path of Excile been 45ms lag on a 100G network does not bode well. Yes that 45ms lag being in the same data centre as the game server. You would be hoping for 20ms or less. Yes that 5 ms of lag before rubber banding will absolutely start and can be partly happening all the time just due to client to server time sync issues due to how lossy the default clock chips are in servers and desktop computers. So before anti-cheat Path of Exile was all round screwed.

        What would be a inhuman here is that a person has like 100ms lag yet they have perfect target lock on where the other person moved to in the past 100ms. This is the thing a server side anti cheat will be looking for. Where a person has lagged yet they have more knowledge than the lag says they should have. Yes this result does not happen for non cheating players. Its the same with ESP were a person is being way to successful at tracking someone because they a tracking a person by stuff that should not be viable. Weapon kick back in shot direction missing is another. Never missing yet taking shots are really high speed(this could require a in person check).

        A proper server side anti-cheat is looking for inhuman actions and are ignoring inhuman errors like rubber-banding caused by time sync unless there is some other miss alignment.


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        • #54
          Originally posted by partcyborg View Post

          That is not how physics works. The fastest network in existance is still subject to the speeds of light/electricity/compute clocks, which makes much of the planet farther than 3ms apart
          Uh you do realise that games have servers in multiple continents around the world?

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          • #55
            Originally posted by tuxayo View Post

            How does this address the issue of wallhacks or radars in FPSs?
            Or subtle shooting assistance like recoil compensation?
            Or revealing the map and removing fog in RTSs?

            These complex to address issues don't make ok the use of invasive non-libre software though.
            LoL doesn't have complex anti cheat and that wasn't a problem ever.

            Simply in LoL servers send your position to enemy ONLY if you should be visible. in 3d space it is a little more complicated. About recoil compensation, something like that should send all actions user do in game to server and rapid movements just to compensate recoil sounds simple enough,.

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            • #56
              Originally posted by Ironmask View Post
              The only anti-cheat is server-side sanity checking, everything else is just a minor annoyance. Client-side anti-cheat is purely just for marketing to make companies feel better.
              This is not completely true ; server-side anti-cheat will have a hard time verifying that you don't use auto-click ; they'll have a hard time checking whether your client sends too many packets per second ; they'll have a hard time checking against the real textures pack you're using to play the game.

              Ant-cheat has always have been (and always will be) a mix of client and server-side processes.

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              • #57
                Originally posted by artivision View Post
                People in this forum believe that a usb hardware before mouse will help them aimlock, with what feedback? Then just go an buy it and see for your selves that you scammed. Aimlock is based on game engine data about player avatars, the correct way is for the engine not to provide enemy avatar general data to the other players. Instead it can provide avatar graphical data only for the gpu to draw the enemy avatar without the client knowing what it is (obfuscated command stream). Then just resolve anything playing the actual game in server.


                The Zen in current cheats is just how the input gets into the targeted computer running the game. Yes 2 PC setup cheating or one PC and a console cheating is what we are seeing more now.

                100 dollar bit of hardware so you can do input. Under 1000 dollars for a PC with capture. This is still cheaper than what people who cheat end up paying out in a month at times cheating due to game bans.

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                • #58
                  Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post
                  Uh you do realise that games have servers in multiple continents around the world?
                  Yes this is where a standard +20ms latency comes from in game play. How to sync data between computers has not really been solved.

                  Facebook engineers have built and open-sourced an Open Compute Time Appliance, an important component of the modern timing infrastructure. To make this possible, we came up with the Time Card — a P…


                  Yes facebook doing atomic clock work is about not need the 20ms when sending data between computers include when they are in multiple continents.

                  People don't always play on the server nearest to them either.

                  Lets say you have a real 3ms connection to the server. To avoid the possibility of receiving a packet from your computer with a date/time in the future due to how lossy your computer clock is there is a added 10ms delay at the server before processing it sent back then your computer adds another 10ms so the your computer does not recieve a packet from the future. So that 3ms link comes a 26ms round trip. Zero latency between you and the server is still 20ms to prevent the server receiving a packet from the future.

                  Time and how bad computer clocks are is the reason why its very hard to ping/packet speed across the internet under 20ms. There are some setups with lower than 10ms valve and other with higher than 10ms value to prevent receiving valid packets with a time in the future. The worst used with databases between data centers around the world is a +40ms in both directions with a perfect connect with no lag the best possible transfer and answer speed on that is 80ms.

                  Having better clocks like atomic clocks that can be more exactly synced with each other allows running lower offsets. Of course atomic clock cards even the open hardware ones you are looking at 1500 dollars today.

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                  • #59
                    Originally posted by stormcrow View Post
                    The dust up between Epic and Apple is 90% Epic self inflicted.
                    Does Tim Sweeney know that?

                    (Note: I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm asking about Epic's/Sweeney's viewpoint)

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                    • #60
                      Originally posted by Emmanuel Deloget View Post
                      This is not completely true ; server-side anti-cheat will have a hard time verifying that you don't use auto-click ; they'll have a hard time checking whether your client sends too many packets per second ; they'll have a hard time checking against the real textures pack you're using to play the game.
                      Auto-click detection is quite dependable server side. At this stage most auto clicks with their click spacing lack natural human variation. Reality is even the best human gamer cannot do exact click spacing yet your auto click hardware and software does exactly this. Checking if your client is spamming the server with packets is required to prevent different forms of server attacks.

                      Checking for real textures this is true server side cannot do this. Can server side pick-up a unfair advantage got by using textures the answer is yes. Like if the world is meant to be dark and you texture pack makes it non dark you will see player doing impossible shots and like in minecraft and other games where you have light sources you can place down so you can seen in the dark not using this gear. So there are indirect ways to pick up a person cheating by texture pack replacement and lighting modification. Of course these are detecting when the cheaters change is giving them a unfair advantage. Now of course a person may have changed the textures of the game and made themselves a worse player.

                      Lot of people don't understand how much a good server side anti-cheat can in fact catch. Good server side anti cheat catches hell of a lot without depending on any client side. Yes good server side anti cheat is a bug bear for those making PC AI systems that pretend to be a real human running the input on a different computer/console as well same issue lack of natural human variation. Yes this is also a method to pick up when someone has submitted a tool assisted speed run and is claiming its human played as well. There is such thing as too perfect to be performed by a human.

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