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Valve Announces Steam Deck As Portable SteamOS + AMD Powered Portable PC

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  • Originally posted by Citan View Post
    Double bullshit, big time.
    Performance will be necessarily better if only because one can actually adjust graphical rendering with game options.
    Also, while I recognize that custom hardware with paired custom toolset and instructions can lead to awesome performance per raw power...
    You are saying a hardware with low-range, 1/4 quantity of DDR4 and maybe 1/5 of the raw processing power of Steam Deck would "provide comparable performance"? LOL.
    Flops, is a relatively good indicator of gpu performance not perfect, but good enough for most cases. you can find benchmarks of similar spec'd systems and compare them with Swtich benchmarks, Ive checked doom eternal and Witcher myself, and while I realize those are the top tier for optimization on the switch, they do not preform drastically different. in most cases you can bump a few settings. running at 1080p still needs a 50% res scale for similar graphics quality, which puts it into the same ballpark as the switch. I don't care about anything else, I care about ingame preformance, and this does not feel like a couple generations ahead, it feels like a generation.

    As for "no real incentive other than a different library of games"?
    - Access to every productivity app you want (at least Linux native ones. I'm dubious on how easy it would be installing MS Office / Photoshope / Autocad / whatever else compared to classic Linux distro, patience and sweat from admin).
    its a portable gaming console does this matter to the majority of people? no. maybe for a couple of people that want the portability of a GPD but don't need the keyboard.
    - Access to games that largely expands beyond just steam (Linux native and fully ported games, Gog ported games, hardware emulators).
    this is exactly what I said. different games library

    - Multiplayer without added cost for online (hello Nintendo online) or local (broad compatibility of devices, so each player can bring whatever gamepad he loves), or network (it's a Linux behind after all).
    I will concede this point. I personally don't mind paying for nintendo's craptastic service to play with my friends. but I guess that would matter for some.

    - Unrestricted communication tools (Discord, Mumble, own Steam, Gog, whatever you like).
    - Unrestricted multimedia tools (Vlc, free access to whatever streaming / download sources you like to use).
    this matters to the vast minority of people. particularly the communication tools. sure their might be a few people who would like discord on switch, but I doubt for many it's an important factor. Same with multimedia tools, as long as it has a player that can play the majority of videos people don't care what they use. I do wish we had things like netflix on the switch. but I doubt we will get controller friendly streaming apps anytime soon for the deck, but I would love to be proven wrong on this one. (well outside of running android in a VM on the deck, but on the flip side you can dualboot switch with android by modding)

    - Ability to use as a mobile PC (something urgent to do, like a mail? Tactile keyboard may suffice, otherwise you can plug usb keyboard or pair any bluetooth device) or a full PC (put on desktop, plug usb hub which connects screen and peripherals, you're set).
    see comment about GPD. I doubt this is a great portion of people thinking about this or the switch.

    I may come as irrespectful here, but honestly, did you plug your brain before reading about this machine?
    There are interrogations and potential causes of failure: actual compatibility of steam games on Linux -and traditional proprietary apps!!- without any action required from user, build quality, autonomy and perfs matching what's announced, quality of ongoing software support and hardware replacement...
    But on paper this is an absolute beast.

    Doing so would have probably condemned the machine.
    First, it would have required very extensive R&D effort to find proper external case, and ensure compatibility.
    Second, it would have added on production cost to cater for likely 0, 01% of target audience, for a device that will be already clearly sold at no profit (or so little) at least for upcoming 2 years.
    Third, it would have sent a very bad message to general audience, giving a vague feeling like "we think integrated power won't be enough sooner than later so we plan ahead".
    Fourth, it would have ultimately be wasted investment, because if one really is in the mindset of using an external gpu, it means (s)he has both the space and the treasury (especially the latter) to buy high-end ultraportables with support for egpu, like the very recent (and VERY PROPRIETARY sadly) 13'' Asus ROG Flow.
    On which installing Linux should prove easy enough if you want it.

    1.5 tflops is not a beast in PC computing. thats about as much as the original PS4. and yeah, its the best PC has to offer interms of this form factor, but its NOT a beast by any means. this is advertised as an device you can plug into your TV and its targeting 720p - low 1080p. the switch could do it as 4k TVs weren't all that popular at the time. but now is different. nearly everyone I know, and every TV sold in all the shops in my large town, are 4k. the specs are downright anemic for the use case, regardless of cost.

    you don't need an external case, you don't even need to ensure compatibility or advertise eGPU support. Thunderbolt/USB4 is all that is needed. and maybe it would have driver up costs a bit to implement, or maybe even a lot. but its a shit ton better than misleading your potential customers. the steam deck WILL NOT do 1080p60 at high settings for many games. hell I doubt it will be the majority excluding indie or Graphically simple games.

    It shouldn't cost too much to implement, they don't need their own egpu solution. but at least the option would be there. Thankfully it turns out that infact, the deck DOES have an nvme m.2 slot and it is not soldered. so now we still have an avenue to go.

    but for the vast majority of people thinking about buying either the deck or the switch, the deck is a lot less compelling than I hoped it would be.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by doomie View Post

      Also if they want any devs to make Deck-hardware-specific optimizations, which they AND WE do want, having non-standard hardware throws that out the window. Sometimes for user experience, less is actually more. Sounds like the guy just wants a gaming laptop.
      No. I want them to not bullshit us. I have very large doubts that plugging this into a TV, most of which nowadays are 4k, but even 1080p will be a good experience in most games. 1.5 Tflops in anemic for this use case, if it was strictly a 720p portable gaming PC fine, for 300 dollars sure. but don't advertised what isn't really capable, then not even give the end user a way to make up the deficiency themselves.

      as I said, I was hoping for something more compelling hardware wise. looking at benchmarks of similar specd machines (as I said, you cant do it dead on, but you can get close) its performance over the switch is disappointing IMO. that is all, I already said I expect it to sell, Its fine for the price, the hardware is understandable, but I would absolutely pay more, for a better preforming machine. or at least let us make up for the downsides ourselves.

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      • I was thinking, the presentation mentions "use it as a pc as it is one". Could it be that people could be more inclined to switch to Linux Destkops for the first time in history? Could it be that we could have more people working on Linux software in an open and collaborative way? Could it be that we could end up having an extremely user friendly linux environment for the masses?
        I thought of that, and I seriously hope that at least some of my hopes will come to life.
        Another great thing could be that nothing prevents people from having virtual machines on a device like the SteamDeck. I'm thrilled

        Comment


        • Originally posted by xorbe View Post
          Tech specs: https://www.steamdeck.com/en/tech

          Assuming the ram is single channel, for a device this small.
          ram is quad channel

          Comment


          • Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post

            I highly doubt that its going to be single channel memory since that is a massive drop in performance for no real reason

            Can't wait for the gnome haters, not too surprised that they went with Arch + KDE plasma. Arch is rolling release which can help deal with the outdated graphics driver problems (i.e. you get kernel updates sooner) and KDE (much to the dismay of others) is actually one the leanest desktop environments when it comes to CPU and memory, that thing is heavily optimized.
            KDE is lean for CPU and Memory usage. Less so for it's UI design. It'd almost be wiser to use the Plasma Mobile on the thing, and then detect if a dock is connected, to switch to full Plasma Desktop. That'd be a neat trick, actually. Otherwise, Gnome Shell is probably the superior choice for a small touch screen device. Windows on a small touch screen device is terrible (unless Windows 8.x), so there is that.

            Hopefully they have some great developers that'll stick with Arch and do fantastic QA on updates, as Arch does break occasionally.

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            • Originally posted by Quackdoc View Post

              No. I want them to not bullshit us. I have very large doubts that plugging this into a TV, most of which nowadays are 4k, but even 1080p will be a good experience in most games. 1.5 Tflops in anemic for this use case, if it was strictly a 720p portable gaming PC fine, for 300 dollars sure. but don't advertised what isn't really capable, then not even give the end user a way to make up the deficiency themselves.

              as I said, I was hoping for something more compelling hardware wise. looking at benchmarks of similar specd machines (as I said, you cant do it dead on, but you can get close) its performance over the switch is disappointing IMO. that is all, I already said I expect it to sell, Its fine for the price, the hardware is understandable, but I would absolutely pay more, for a better preforming machine. or at least let us make up for the downsides ourselves.
              Better performance means more heat, less battery and louder fans. This already will perform better than the Switch. The Switch upscales when you plug in a dock, no reason the specific dock for this couldn't do the same. Though I think it'd need thunderbolt2 on it to support eGPUs, that'd be the best way to 'get more game'. Though I think Linux's eGPU support is still rather flaky, isn't it?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by leech View Post

                Better performance means more heat, less battery and louder fans. This already will perform better than the Switch. The Switch upscales when you plug in a dock, no reason the specific dock for this couldn't do the same. Though I think it'd need thunderbolt2 on it to support eGPUs, that'd be the best way to 'get more game'. Though I think Linux's eGPU support is still rather flaky, isn't it?
                The dock wouldn't have to do anything, really, and an egpu of any appreciably greater performance would make for an extremely expensive dock. Making two kinds of docks isn't necessary either. A thunderbolt port would really be all that's needed, Valve official dock wouldn't really be necessary at that point because you're already breaking main hw spec, and it would be a very niche market anyway. Idk what it would take to implement thunderbolt on that thing though, so maybe not worth it... I kinda doubt it wasn't considered at some point during the dreaming phase.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by leech View Post

                  Better performance means more heat, less battery and louder fans. This already will perform better than the Switch. The Switch upscales when you plug in a dock, no reason the specific dock for this couldn't do the same. Though I think it'd need thunderbolt2 on it to support eGPUs, that'd be the best way to 'get more game'. Though I think Linux's eGPU support is still rather flaky, isn't it?
                  Upscaling was fine because the nature of 90% of switch games, this will preform better, but not "Better enough in all likelyness" Linux eGPU is fairly flakey when using it to render the display server (or more specifically when swapping gpu's display server is running on), but thats not really necessary in this case since the iGPU is more than fine for running wayland/xorg, and hot unplug for AMD gpus is in linux 5.14.

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                  • Originally posted by doomie View Post

                    The dock wouldn't have to do anything, really, and an egpu of any appreciably greater performance would make for an extremely expensive dock. Making two kinds of docks isn't necessary either. A thunderbolt port would really be all that's needed, Valve official dock wouldn't really be necessary at that point because you're already breaking main hw spec, and it would be a very niche market anyway. Idk what it would take to implement thunderbolt on that thing though, so maybe not worth it... I kinda doubt it wasn't considered at some point during the dreaming phase.
                    Exactly, thunderbolt/USB4 would be an adequate solution. Honestly I would be more than happy to buy one of these for 300-400, buy an eGPU dock for 300-400 (I still dont exactly understand why they are this expensive but whatever not the point), which is at the price of higher ranged PC's minus GPU anyways, and then use a used, or even new GPU. of course it would be pricey, but it doesn't matter. people already are willing to spend thousand dollars on a PC anyway. but at least it gives us an upgrade path. which is more important than actually doing it, because at least it gives the end user an option to make up the short comming themselves. which it will have plenty, especially as it ages. (Particularly in gpu obviously)

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Quackdoc View Post

                      Exactly, thunderbolt/USB4 would be an adequate solution. Honestly I would be more than happy to buy one of these for 300-400, buy an eGPU dock for 300-400 (I still dont exactly understand why they are this expensive but whatever not the point), which is at the price of higher ranged PC's minus GPU anyways, and then use a used, or even new GPU. of course it would be pricey, but it doesn't matter. people already are willing to spend thousand dollars on a PC anyway. but at least it gives us an upgrade path. which is more important than actually doing it, because at least it gives the end user an option to make up the short comming themselves. which it will have plenty, especially as it ages. (Particularly in gpu obviously)
                      Seriously, why are eGPU dicks so expensive? I still have my Asus one, but it was a chunkc of change for sure. It is pretty much a PSU, Dock and PCIe slot all in one...
                      The method of sticking a GPU in the Atari VCS seems to be cheaper, although it is a lot cludgier!

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