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Valve Announces Steam Deck As Portable SteamOS + AMD Powered Portable PC

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  • Originally posted by pWe00Iri3e7Z9lHOX2Qx View Post

    These forums are a cesspool of stupidity. Posters can generally be broken down into 5 categories.
    1. Morons
    2. Trolls
    3. Moron trolls
    4. Linux nerds (myself included)
    5. The few people with some interesting industry insight (e.g. AMD or RH employees)
    Unfortunately it is often the case that > 75% of comments are from people in the first 3 groups.
    Moron trolls. ahah

    The problem is most Linux users tend to be a bit more intelligent than the average user, that intelligence often brings with it a bigger ego resulting in moron trolls.

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    • Originally posted by LeJimster View Post
      Even though it's arch based I wonder if they will manage the updates. I wonder if they will manage things like Manjaro do and hold off a little on the very latest packages, giving them time to test things before each update.

      Anyway, it's exciting to see SteamOS is still alive in a different form. Could we be about to see the mythical 1% of Linux gamers on Steam figure get smashed this xmas?
      I anticipate them using provisioned filesystems in an a/b update format. I would be appalled if they actually used pacman in the field. I was an embedded Linux consultant and have delivered 2 discrete a/b partition update implementations which couple into a custom EFI (or uboot) bootloader (forked off systemd-bootd). It is easy enough (the latest systemd actually explicitly supports this now) and infinitely more robust than allowing machines in the field to splinter (as discrete Linux machines undergoing non-deterministic updates/adjustment)

      I actually ordered one of these for many reasons. I love Arch, I appreciate Valve and the work they contribute to mesa, Proton, SDL2 and other bits of the stack, but I also simply want to see their approach to shipping an Arch based device like this

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      • I love the idea and can't wait to have one. Specs are incredible, stack seems solid, price is very good.

        I have to say I disagree that consumers will not find this appealing, just to look at how switch sales are composed of: yes, first party thrive on the switch, but they lack a TON of stuff that's hyped on twitch and channels like this. If the Deck can provide that on a portable without any porting involved it will be game changer. Forget "switch when?" messages on forums.

        I have 3 concerns though:
        1) Software. Proton seems awesome and valve can provide an even better compatibility if they focus on this hardware. Optimization across the whole stack can also help them. However, it's still a long way ahead for anti-cheat/DRM stuff. This composes a huge part of their top 100 library. There's also the whole console-like experience that is hard to provide: good default settings, smooth return to the OS UI, good sleep mode, no windows popping or glitches when going full screen. A good selection of multimedia apps wouldn't hurt also. I hope they have time and people focused on doing this, as it seems the most critical piece of the strategy.

        2) Storage: this is critical, specially for the low end SKU. Since it's a 720p device, I hope they can provide a way for developers to provide a compressed game with lower resolution assets. Take Divinity: Original Sin 2 that has 60gb on steam vs 12gb on the Switch. Optimization options should be on developers' hands as this has great impact on end users.

        3) Battery life: 720p helps and AMD chips are efficient. But it's still a x86. I wonder how customers will react to low battery life if they can't necessarily dock their systems and play on TV (since it doesn't come with a dock). Similar playtime worked on the Switch but I don't know if it's going to work here.

        ​​​​​​​Overall I'm very excited for the thing, and it success could represent a huge step for Linux gaming.



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        • Originally posted by evasb View Post
          Now Epic Games can do their move and port Epic Store for Linux to people play in their Steam Decks.
          The tricky bit is porting the games, though I suppose they could rely on VALVe's Proton work.

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          • I am on the fence for this one as a personal purchase.

            The hardware selections make a lot of sense for a product released in 2021. It's a handheld, so it's got to be a little core design, and of course it's AMD for the superior iGPU. Also, Valve wants to leverage their existing catalog, so they can't go wild with ARM (or RISC-V).

            The storage does feel a bit limiting, given the giant sizes of a lot of PC games. It'd be nice if the super large, detailed artwork that this device can't handle could be an add-on for installation. microSD cards aren't horrible, though (too bad it probably can't do microSD Express, which ought to be akin to PCIe NVME). There's also the USB-C port, though, so when docked, perhaps a USB-attached SSD is another option.

            In other ways, it feels like we've been on the verge of some technologies that will provide some potentially transformative scalability, but those won't come in time for this device's release. USB4 (and potential eGPUs) are supposedly slated for Rembrandt, but that's a big core design, I think, so that isn't going to matter here. microSD express is another one that could help the device not feel as limited by its soldered storage.

            I also wonder what this thing weighs. A 40 Wh battery is hitting thin-and-light notebook territory...

            In the end, though, this device likely serves people who don't care about running at the highest settings and especially enjoy the lighter-duty and indie games and would love to have it all on-the-go. We'll have to see how well AAA titles scale down... But I think it's all an interesting proposition.

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            • As someone who has been playing around with a 640x480 screen on Raspberry Pis and also maining an Arch Linux workstation - shut up and take my money.

              The only changes I'd make to this (outside of config) are probably moving it to the linux-zen kernel and maybe trying it with my usual Xfce. I'm curious how WoW will play on it.

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              • Originally posted by Alexmitter View Post

                Valve needed a Windows clone for its desktop mode to be an easy entry for people who do by this as their first GNU/Linux device, that's all and KDE does work well enough for that. While it does run on a different compositor, most likely gamescope when it is not in desktop mode. Switching to a better desktop for desktop mode should be a easy thing to do. The same is true for the original SteamOS, also running a specialized compositor when in steam big picture mode and Mutter in desktop mode.

                That does not change the fact that for a Workstation OS, KDE is simply to broken, to heavy and too buggy for being the default. No reputable workstation linux distro ships KDE by default. Thats not fanboyism, install plasma, test it, compare it and every sane person will come to the same conclusion. A poorly executed windows clone with questionable software design and licensing issues.
                Im sorry. Gnome people like yourself need to stop parading around with sticks up their ass on a high moral. This kind of arrogance has been getting annoying for quite some time and it permeates into everything, whether its Gnome developers/Redhat thinking they know better than anyone else and block features required for other DE's/compatibility or crying about dual licensing of Qt which is an issue that effects almost no one in reality.

                Believe it or not, Gnome is not is not the best desktop experience, far from it. I would classify at as okay, but the big problem with Gnome is they seem to put all of their focus on inconsequential matters (i.e. UI experience for tablets when there isn't even a proper tablet around that runs non Android linux) without actually looking at the core technicals of the product. KDE is much more optimized (uses massively less RAM and has more performance) which is something that Phoronix has shown multiple times (contrary to your statements) and is actually important for such a device and probably the KDE community being more reasonable with upstream changes matters as well.

                I mean none of this is surprising, KDE is built ontop of Qt which is owned by a company whos sole monetization is a GUI toolkit. This means they are forced to provide a good experience, otherwise they are screwed. Gnome is primarily funded by Redhat, who really doesn't care at all about GUI's as long as its good enough and meets their needs which explains a lot.

                And thats the point, Gnome/GTK doesn't meet the needs of Steam OS. Believe it or not, Steam doesn't care about all of the b/s going on around here, they picked what is technically the best solution for their product and that is KDE/Arch, so deal with it and stop crying. I am also sure that Gnome extensions breaking all of the time (which a lot of people end up using on Gnome because of how underwhelming it is) didn't help either.

                Finally, judging by your statements it seems like you haven't actually used KDE since KDE4, yes KDe4 was laggy and buggy but KDE5 now uses even less resources than Xfce (a supposed "light" DE)
                Last edited by mdedetrich; 17 July 2021, 05:25 AM.

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                • Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post
                  KDE is much more optimized (uses massively less RAM and has more performance) [...]
                  Finally, judging by your statements it seems like you haven't actually used KDE since KDE4, yes KDe4 was laggy and buggy but KDE5 now uses even less resources than Xfce (a supposed "light" DE)
                  I'm sorry, my friend, but you're no better than Alexmitter. You too are spreading misinformation started probably by this horrible article. If you want to compare DE's memory usage, do it right and use the same base. Xfce is still noticeably leaner, GNOME and Plasma are more or less on pair in that regard.

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                  • Originally posted by gedgon View Post

                    I'm sorry, my friend, but you're no better than Alexmitter. You too are spreading misinformation started probably by this horrible article. If you want to compare DE's memory usage, do it right and use the same base. Xfce is still noticeably leaner, GNOME and Plasma are more or less on pair in that regard.
                    Actually wrong, it was a test done by Phoronix, I.e.https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...desktops&num=4 (which is related to gaming that's relevant for Steam Deck)

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                    • Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post

                      Actually wrong, it was a test done by Phoronix, I.e.https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...desktops&num=4 (which is related to gaming that's relevant for Steam Deck)
                      And where do you have desktop environments memory comparison there?

                      Edit. Or maybe you're talking about performance? Where, according to your source, Plasma was the worst DE as a base for gaming, with the exception of GNOME on Wayland when mutter couldn't even unredirect on Wayland. How was Plasma on Wayland performance in 2018? /s

                      Edit 2. I was curious how the worst case scenario from that test looks like today, so here's a little comparison on Polaris.

                      Last edited by gedgon; 18 July 2021, 10:13 AM.

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