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Steam On Linux Still Tap Dancing Around 0.9% Marketshare

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  • Xaero_Vincent
    replied
    Originally posted by avem View Post
    And what about NVIDIA/AMD Drivers Control Panels 95% of whose features are not available under Linux?
    What about undervolting/fan curves/power limiting under Linux out of the box? Without using weird repos from github with software no one can vouch for?
    What about anticheat solutions? Do they work under Linux?
    What about RTX/DLSS support? OK, the latter is proprietary but the former is a standard and implemented in Vulkan as well.
    What about proper OSD monitoring? Yeah, mongohud exists, what about configuring it using UI without editing and debugging god knows what text files? Oh, and mongohud doesn't always work, sometimes it's mangohud app, sometimes it's MANGOHUD=1 vkcube, sometimes it's MANGOHUD_DLSYM=1 mangohud glxgears.
    * I'd be curious to know what features are missing out of the Nvidia Driver Control Panel for Linux under X11?
    * You mean like MSI Afterburner alternatives like Green with Envy and CoreCtrl?
    * Almost all user-space anti-cheat solutions work on Linux, such as Warden and VAC. EAC and BattlEye work for native games but the obvious issue is they don't work in Proton.
    * I'm sure if you've read Phoronix that there is both native and limited Proton support for RTX and DLSS for Vulkan applications. DirectX based Linux DLSS is coming in the Fall. AMD FidelityFX Super Resolution is already supported native and in Proton.
    * The GOverlay GUI is the exclusive way I configure Mangohud--the latest version even supports the new HUD features of Mangohud. It is also for configuring vkBasault (ReShade post processing equivalent for Linux) and Replay Sorcery (ReLive/ShadowPlay equivalent for Linux)

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  • AHOY
    replied
    Linux doesn't just works and I hope it never does so they don't start the Windowsfication of everything. Rounded corners and smooth brains. A good market share that validates the market for native software and investments is enough.

    I hope the Linux platform that gets popular is a fully FLOSS but completely locked down experience with vetted hardware, but still sharing the same building blocks behind the scenes. But certainly not Google-shit ChromeOS spyware central. That way they can't press the wrong buttons and just shut the hell up, and stay out of this endless stupid conversation. If they want to learn more though they can always graduate to a proper desktop like a grown-up. I don't know what I hate more, the "linux just works install MY DISTRO but NOT THAT DISTRO" or windows trolls happy that they are getting grass graped by their NSA overlords.

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  • chocolate
    replied
    Originally posted by swoorup View Post

    Now for how many people you think thats really a big problem that they need to switch to Linux? If they were really cautious you wouldn't have seen the huge marketshare of windows on the desktop.
    In my circle of gaming pals, everybody uses Windows but they are all on the fence ready to switch with enough reassurance that everything will keep working. They will get it once Proton matures, even though right now there's no rush.

    They use tools to "neuter" Windows' telemetry and such. These tools apparently modify or delete core Windows files that have the potential to respawn at each update. So I know for a fact that my friends have to run these tools over and over, while also keeping up to date with the tools themselves, because they get smarter at each new thing Windows *forcibly* introduces.
    Such headache, so much time wasted. They hate it!

    Truth is: Windows does not offer anything particularly good or noteworthy. It's game developers that offer support for Windows as a platform, a.k.a. Windows is a game bootloader, it's not something people stick to because they love it or anything like that. This means that when a game is programmed so that it doesn't rely on patented technology such as Media Foundation, it already has the potential to work 100% on day 1 in Proton, with less headaches. This is bound to improve up to the point that Proton is a better "game bootloader" layer than Windows itself. Why crap on it while it's work in progress? If anything, it has shown it's on the right path to succeed.

    This is not being voluntarily myopic about what Linux lacks as a platform still, as you seem to imply in post 81, but rather realistic about what Linux is already doing better. Let some Linux users gloat in their comfort, so what? Windows astroturfers are way more insufferable, I would say. (Not implying you are one.)

    Cheers.

    Leave a comment:


  • swoorup
    replied
    Originally posted by theriddick View Post

    Well this is a Linux forum. But I get what you mean, it doesn't JUST WORK all the time, I mean some things CAN just work but there are plenty of cases where it doesn't thats for sure. Also the troubleshooting steps are radically different to windows thus are a massive learning curve for many people, I get it.

    Still, MS is harvesting the shit out of peoples data on windows10 and soon 11, its just annoying they expect people to PAY for that platform after all the telemetry and advertising nonsense that has been going on, and growing.

    Unfortunately I still must boot to windows10 if I want to play RUST/SCUM or TARKOV; and getting SQUAD+Mortal2Online working was no easy feat(under Linux).
    Now for how many people you think thats really a big problem that they need to switch to Linux? If they were really cautious you wouldn't have seen the huge marketshare of windows on the desktop. If people want linux to succeed, they'll have to put their dollars to work. Not just expect other people to work for free. Most of the development work in linux is done by groups with interests mostly on the server side and mobile too, cause thats their bottom line.

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  • Chaython
    replied
    Everyone I know who uses Linux, uses steam in VM, there's no benefit to native vs BareMetal VM, native is just more vulnerabilities, less easy backup more annoyances.
    Also most who use Linux are more privacy oriented and are more likely to disable the hardware survey.

    Leave a comment:


  • theriddick
    replied
    Originally posted by swoorup View Post
    Oh the amount of linux fanboyism and it just works mentality here is annoying.
    Well this is a Linux forum. But I get what you mean, it doesn't JUST WORK all the time, I mean some things CAN just work but there are plenty of cases where it doesn't thats for sure. Also the troubleshooting steps are radically different to windows thus are a massive learning curve for many people, I get it.

    Still, MS is harvesting the shit out of peoples data on windows10 and soon 11, its just annoying they expect people to PAY for that platform after all the telemetry and advertising nonsense that has been going on, and growing.

    Unfortunately I still must boot to windows10 if I want to play RUST/SCUM or TARKOV; and getting SQUAD+Mortal2Online working was no easy feat(under Linux).

    Leave a comment:


  • swoorup
    replied
    Oh the amount of linux fanboyism and it just works mentality here is annoying. Linux requires lot of work for the end users. Just cause your system worked at an instant, doesn't mean every one has the same experience. Windows has the resources allocated for testers to test on wide variety of permutations of hardware, whereas for linux most of the desktop experience testing is up to the end user.

    Development for open source drivers for a major vendor is done by few people who don't have resources to test every single permutation, at least to a lesser extent than windows does. If linux just worked, everyone would already have moved over to wayland years ago. But still we haven't fully transitioned yet and its more than decade already. Get over it.
    Last edited by swoorup; 04 July 2021, 10:24 AM.

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  • theriddick
    replied
    I think once we have this whole anticheat thing working under proton that number might actually rise above %1, eventually. I've already got a couple games with EAC working thanks to some devs initial support, but Battleye and many other EAC titles are inaccessible (except for a couple which have Native Linux versions).

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  • mppix
    replied
    Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post

    Of course but thats the point!

    Its not even really possible to do this on Linux because the graphics drivers are tied to the release cycle of the Linux kernel which is incredibly flexible.
    Why do you point at the Linux kernel in this context?
    Many distributions (Fedora, Debian/Ubuntu, ..) ship multiple GPU drivers (e.g. multiple releases of stable and latest drivers) that may or may not be the ones in the kernel. Also, you can certainly install the GPU drivers directly from the manufacturer. This is even Nvidia's recommended approach (...good luck...)
    https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/drivers/unix/

    Anyhow, if there is an issue/delay with optimizations, it is largely because of who performs them. Xbox, playstation, Win ports/optimizations are often done by the first parties. Linux optimizations are usually happening at the Wine, etc. level after the fact..

    Leave a comment:


  • mppix
    replied
    Originally posted by Espionage724 View Post
    Driver handling overall is better on Windows. You don't want to maintain a driver? Microsoft designed Windows Update with Windows 10 just for you! During the OOBE (or shortly afterwards if you get through it quick with a slow ISP), a display driver will be downloaded. No open-source vs proprietary decisions, no concern about how dual-graphics laptops are configured, no concern about Xorg vs (X)Wayland.
    Well, yes, MS Win is not about freedom nor privacy. Is this now a good thing?

    Originally posted by Espionage724 View Post
    I do. There's been a few times on Windows where I've had to switch drivers due to an issue.

    On Linux, if any major part of the graphics stack updates (Mesa, kernel), good luck trying to downgrade it. No way an inexperienced user is going to be able to do this without opening a Terminal, and in most cases, having to go find some arbitrary package name (like Mesa-libGL1-21.1.4-1236.1.i586), force install it, and lock the package to prevent it from just being updated again. And this requires trial-and-error through browsing websites.

    On Windows, it's as easy as downloading an older driver, and installing it (AMD's drivers provide an option to factory reset and remove the existing driver during install).

    Meanwhile on Linux, you have different instructions depending on the distro and NVIDIA, and good luck if you have a laptop with an Intel iGPU/NVIDIA dGPU combo. For AMD, the past month or two I have some unknown color brightness/saturation issue that only affects the AMDGPU Xorg DDX driver, which comes pre-installed on Ubuntu 21.04, Fedora 34, and openSUSE TW. The fix for this is to uninstall AMDGPU and go to modesetting, and I only found this out by trial-and-error.
    I use a good number of 'advanced' PCIe devices including high-speed networking, pro-audio interfaces, storage over multiple cards, etc.
    The only devices that ever need attention are GPUs. In Win, you usually need to be in front of the machine (or have a BMC). In Linux (where it is usually only Nvidia), you can often resolve it remotely.
    Sure, I'm looking at this more from workstation perspective than from a 15y old overclocker/gamer.

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