Proton 6.3-1 Released With More Windows Games Now Running On Linux / Steam Play

[schmidtbag]

Khrundel skeevy420 I don't see how being DRM-free is more ethical. DRMs exist to prevent piracy; piracy is unethical. To exclude a DRM to honest buyers is more of a convenience than an ethical problem, especially considering a lot of DRMs are pretty bloated.
Don't get me wrong, I understand and agree with the arguments against DRMs - I also greatly dislike them. But to claim a DRM is unethical because they have an annoying way to go about preventing a crime would be like saying TSA agents scanning you and your stuff at the airport is unethical. Does it slow everything down? Absolutely. Is it annoying? Hell yes it is. Is it an insult to those who would never think of threatening strangers? Sure. Is it failproof? Nope. Despite all of that, none of these things make airport security inherently unethical. The world is a crappy place and as a result, honest people have to be inconvenienced for the sake of making a worst-case scenario less likely to happen.

All that being said, I definitely agree GOG is better if you want to actually keep your games.

[skeevy420]

Khrundel skeevy420 I don't see how being DRM-free is more ethical. DRMs exist to prevent piracy; piracy is unethical. To exclude a DRM to honest buyers is more of a convenience than an ethical problem, especially considering a lot of DRMs are pretty bloated.
Don't get me wrong, I understand and agree with the arguments against DRMs - I also greatly dislike them. But to claim a DRM is unethical because they have an annoying way to go about preventing a crime would be like saying TSA agents scanning you and your stuff at the airport is unethical. Does it slow everything down? Absolutely. Is it annoying? Hell yes it is. Is it an insult to those who would never think of threatening strangers? Sure. Is it failproof? Nope. Despite all of that, none of these things make airport security inherently unethical. The world is a crappy place and as a result, honest people have to be inconvenienced for the sake of making a worst-case scenario less likely to happen.

All that being said, I definitely agree GOG is better if you want to actually keep your games.

The TSA argument is a bad one. AFAIK, they haven't actually stopped a threat. Apparently andependent testing gets through all the time. Vigilant people on the flight have stopped threats. Heck, anecdotally, I've smuggled items past the TSA...lighters and weed...

The bailouts are what make airports unethical. The average person asks for help and it gets called welfare and Congress will dance while giving us a thumbs down when they vote to keep it from passing. Airports ask for help and it's called a necessary bailout and Congress cheers and congratulates themselves when they pass it.

Speaking of planes, the F35 budget is unethical. The money wasted on that could go to so many places it isn't funny.

Healthcare being tied to jobs is unethical. Do you think the average small business can afford that? Nope. You'd be surprised how many small businesses intentionally stay small because they can't afford the regulations from healthcare and more that occur when you become a big business. Or why you see so many "independent contractors that only work for one parent company". There's nothing independent contractor about being an Amazon Delivery Driver. That's just Amazon skirting regulations.

Big business pushing those laws and regulations is unethical.

AT&T pleading to congress that 50 down/10 up (mbps) is perfectly fine and that they don't want to overdevelop. Overdevelop, to the uninformed, means building infrastructure and providing coverage where a competitor already has infrastructure and coverage. Overdevelop is free market competition.

AT&T pleading 50/10 with fiefdoms is unethical and is them literally pleading to Congress for monopolies.

Always on DRM with single player games is just yet another item on the unethical list.

Always on DRM with online multiplayer games actually enforces ethics by preventing cheating and ensuring everyone is on an equal playing-field and can be considered ethical. No internet, no game, DRM is irrelevant aside from cheaters and piracy.

DRM that allows offline play with single player games is ethical.

[ix900]

All that being said, I definitely agree GOG is better if you want to actually keep your games.

You people do know that Steam has DRM free games? The argument here is funny. Any dev can have their game work without Steam while being delivered through Steam. Problem with people who don't know programming.

The one thing about GOG is you know all games will be. On Steam, its whichever devs do it and there's only a 3rd party site that lists the games. That's the difference.

big mistake that was. No "just click and it works with Proton" on Linux and I forgot how awful the GOG launcher was went I went to install it. The worst part is half the time I launch the game the controller isn't detected (Windows) to the point that it's the most frustrated a game has made me in a long time. Requires rebooting Windows for my DS4 to reconnect. I'm very tempted to get a refund and rebuy the game on Steam in hopes that the controller support is better. I'm game talking about is Bloodstained RotN.

Oh, and when I went to install it with Lutris on Linux to see how that works it errored with a pop-under. When I closed the pop-under AFTER DOWNLOADING AND INSTALLING THE GAME it deleted the Wine prefix due to the error. Yay

It can be easier on Steam generally only when a game works on Steam and Proton. If a game doesn't work with one click on Steam then you have to deal with that anyway or installing other compatible things like GE's proton build. So it can be a pain also. Once you get used to it both ways its not that bad. Wine itself is a nightmare of complication so even with Steam, you have to deal with it at times or not play.

So at least to me what you're saying is you will take what you get since its easy and never really understand that thing you use. That's fine. Nothing wrong with that. You get what you get. I really don't blame you. I just had no choice because I want more games to work and I'm not big on buying from Steam anymore.

Of course, I have many games work from GOG and other stores also in one click. Once you set it up to do so its just fine.

[clintar]

6.3-1 and experimental are completely broken now, all DXVK don't start and VKD3D games are on super speed.

I saw the super speed with experimental. I thought 6.3-1 was ok, but after a while of playing, it seems something goes wacky and the 3d world skips drawing a bunch of frames every second or so. Best way I can describe what's happening.

[schmidtbag]

You people do know that Steam has DRM free games? The argument here is funny. Any dev can have their game work without Steam while being delivered through Steam. Problem with people who don't know programming.

The one thing about GOG is you know all games will be. On Steam, its whichever devs do it and there's only a 3rd party site that lists the games. That's the difference.

Kinda stating the obvious here. Just because devs can make a game work without steam, doesn't mean it will (seems to me, it usually doesn't). Just because a game doesn't depend on Steam, doesn't mean you'll get a standalone installer for it.

Personally, I'm not really concerned either way. Steam isn't going away any time soon and should it ever go away permanently, I'll just pirate the games I already owned so I can come back to them if I even care to do so.

[cliff]

Nice job Valve! I cant wait to give this one a try.

[Khrundel]

I don't see how being DRM-free is more ethical.

I never said DRM is unethical. I said some people believes it is unethical. My personal ethic code says no third party has a right to force their will on other people contract, so I'm skeptical about GOG's policy despite I hate DRM as almost anyone, especially linux users.

All that being said, I definitely agree GOG is better if you want to actually keep your games.

You shouldn't.
Well, about 15-20 years ago you it was usual to backup game files. Now almost nobody has DVD drive to read these backups, we all rely on ability to redownload all these games at any time. Imagine GOG.com goes offline. This is possible, GOG never was too profitable and now, when there are Steam and EGS, market doesn't need third third party game shop. One or two failure from CDPR and GOG.com may go broke. In that case you'll keep immaterial license to launch game, maybe an email about purchase in your mailbox as a confirmation, and you'll have to go to torrents to download installer. Exactly same as for steam, but with lesser probability of going broke.

[verude]

I don't understand why people are fine being treated ass second class citizens when it comes to access to their games, while they are paying for their games others can use them in whatever scenario they want, for free. Some companies do remove third party DRM when it gets cracked, but the majority don't. Additionally, the majority of games use steam as DRM, which of course isn't as invasive as something like denuvo, but I still would rather not be forced to have to load the steam client because it's sort of bloated.

Don't take me wrong, although I'm a tinkerer and was tweaking my games pre-proton to get them running and I'm willing to still do that, I'd rather support valve than go with gog because they're investing in the ecosystem, I still wish there was some sort of api so people could make third party steam clients as I find it heavier than needed.

[skeevy420]

It can be easier on Steam generally only when a game works on Steam and Proton. If a game doesn't work with one click on Steam then you have to deal with that anyway or installing other compatible things like GE's proton build. So it can be a pain also. Once you get used to it both ways its not that bad. Wine itself is a nightmare of complication so even with Steam, you have to deal with it at times or not play.

So at least to me what you're saying is you will take what you get since its easy and never really understand that thing you use. That's fine. Nothing wrong with that. You get what you get. I really don't blame you. I just had no choice because I want more games to work and I'm not big on buying from Steam anymore.

Of course, I have many games work from GOG and other stores also in one click. Once you set it up to do so its just fine.

Outside of Steam I normally do it all manually: setup the Wine prefix with locally built Wine or Proton runners, run the game, add any Winetricks, check the WineDB, etc. The one in a million time I try some automagic way it didn't turn out that will with a pop-under error that deleted everything when I closed it. That pop-under deletion irked me more than anything because the launcher and game were working.

I know how it works and completely understand it when I do it myself. What you're reading is the maybe the 4th or 5th time I've installed something with Lutris. Epic Games works just fine with the Lutris site's one click installer. So have a couple of other things over the years. GOG Galaxy, OTOH, not as smooth to get setup and requires workarounds when launcher updates come (Wine issues in general; not Lutris related).

I also figured out how to get my controller working after exiting RotN w/o a reboot. The exact steps matter

1. stop the game through the in-game menus (any other method has silent errors)
2. exit out of GOG Galaxy
3. gotta then open DS4Windows and click stop (or use the sys tray)
4. click start in DS4Windows and minimize it
5. open up GOG
6. restart the game

I have to do those steps every time I start and stop my game on Windows. And they say Windows is hassle-free gaming

[schmidtbag]

My personal ethic code says no third party has a right to force their will on other people contract, so I'm skeptical about GOG's policy despite I hate DRM as almost anyone, especially linux users.

They very much do have a right and I don't know where you're getting the idea that there's some forced 3rd party contract. There is a license agreement that both the publisher/developer and the customer must abide by. Many publishers/devs deliberately seek 3rd party DRMs specifically because they don't want their own "in-house" anti-piracy tool. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean they don't have a right to do things the way they have been.

Well, about 15-20 years ago you it was usual to backup game files. Now almost nobody has DVD drive to read these backups, we all rely on ability to redownload all these games at any time. Imagine GOG.com goes offline. This is possible, GOG never was too profitable and now, when there are Steam and EGS, market doesn't need third third party game shop. One or two failure from CDPR and GOG.com may go broke. In that case you'll keep immaterial license to launch game, maybe an email about purchase in your mailbox as a confirmation, and you'll have to go to torrents to download installer. Exactly same as for steam, but with lesser probability of going broke.

I'm well aware of the situation where something like GOG going under means all your games go with it, but I'm sure they'll alert people before they were to hypothetically disappear, so people can get their copies at last minute. You also act like DVDs are the only way to go about making backups, but even if DVDs were still popular, nobody would use them to backup modern games. Hard drives are cheap these days.