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A New Kernel Patch Is Being Discussed That's Needed For Newer Windows Games On Wine

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  • #21
    Originally posted by tildearrow View Post
    After this, WINE becomes an emulator (again).
    This still does not make wine a emulator.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibility_layer

    Turns out what Gabriel Krisman Bertazi of Collabora is up to for wine with SECCOMP_MEMMAP is very close to FreeBSD's Linux compatibility layer and other FreeBSD OS compatibility layers.

    So this is still compatibility layer work. After SECCOMP_MEMMAP idea is in the Linux kernel this does open up a few interesting possibilities.

    This feature does open up the possibility of full blown WSL 1 in reverse. As in Windows 10 userspace running on the Linux kernel.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by atomsymbol View Post
      Wine isn't implementing any kind of binary translation (as far as I know), so intercepting calls would require a lot of programming effort.
      You are right and wrong kind of at the same time. The areas where wine project linked items does do binary translation:
      1) dosbox for dos programs and that does do binary translation.
      2) https://github.com/AndreRH/hangover The hangover work and prior userspace mode qemu stuff.

      With copyright protection and anti-cheat and anti-debug its a lot more than a little extra effort intercepting calls. When you have to all three I just listed could mean the program you have in front of you is a polymorphic engine that is rewriting its binary on the fly in places so no you cannot use static binary translation. So binary translation for wine fairly much equals taking the overhead hit of qemu for dynamic binary translation or in other words way too much performance hit for most games.

      Reason why patching kernel instead of doing binary translation is that binary translation is way too costly particularly with the stuff wine has to run.

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      • #23
        More linuxisms in wine is not a good thing. Wine already doesn't work on OpenBSD, has problems on NetBSD, fortunately the FreeBSD support is still quite serviceable for the 32bit apps I need to run but I don't see this change getting ported to FreeBSD anytime soon so more modern games that won't run on FreeBSD. Right now the best solution seems to be a ZFS FreeBSD solution for actual work and a separate SSD with WIndows 10 installed for games.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
          This feature does open up the possibility of full blown WSL 1 in reverse. As in Windows 10 userspace running on the Linux kernel.

          HEHE, that would be fantastic!

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          • #25
            Originally posted by kylew77 View Post
            More linuxisms in wine is not a good thing. Wine already doesn't work on OpenBSD, has problems on NetBSD, fortunately the FreeBSD support is still quite serviceable for the 32bit apps I need to run but I don't see this change getting ported to FreeBSD anytime soon so more modern games that won't run on FreeBSD. Right now the best solution seems to be a ZFS FreeBSD solution for actual work and a separate SSD with WIndows 10 installed for games.
            Who cares about BSD? And even people who do, why do they care about a linux specific thing that affects them not? If they want the feature, they can implement it on their kernel.... No one is stopping them....

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            • #26
              Originally posted by kylew77 View Post
              More linuxisms in wine is not a good thing. Wine already doesn't work on OpenBSD, has problems on NetBSD, fortunately the FreeBSD support is still quite serviceable for the 32bit apps I need to run but I don't see this change getting ported to FreeBSD anytime soon so more modern games that won't run on FreeBSD. Right now the best solution seems to be a ZFS FreeBSD solution for actual work and a separate SSD with WIndows 10 installed for games.
              Why do you think Wine has to be system agnostic? BSD is nowhere close Linux, so launching games in Wine in BSD is pain. There's NO support from BSD crowd for Linux DE's and applications like Gnome, KDE, Wine. Why do you think they should bother? FreeBSD is trying to catch up by implementing linuxism. The truth is you either follow Linux or you're left in the wilds.
              Last edited by Volta; 06-01-2020, 02:22 AM.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by Cape View Post
                Can't they intercept the call when the executable is loaded and change it to a normal call?
                They can't, the call is often in a dynamically generated or otherwise self-modifying code.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by TemplarGR View Post

                  Who cares about BSD? And even people who do, why do they care about a linux specific thing that affects them not? If they want the feature, they can implement it on their kernel.... No one is stopping them....
                  Originally posted by Volta View Post

                  Why do you think Wine has to be system agnostic? BSD is nowhere close Linux, so launching games in Wine in BSD is pain. There's NO support from BSD crowd for Linux DE's and applications like Gnome, KDE, Wine. Why do you think they should bother? FreeBSD is trying to catch up by implementing linuxism. The truth is you either follow Linux or you're left in the wilds.
                  From WineHQ front page:
                  What is Wine?


                  Wine (originally an acronym for "Wine Is Not an Emulator") is a compatibility layer capable of running Windows applications on several POSIX-compliant operating systems, such as Linux, macOS, & BSD.

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by kylew77 View Post
                    More linuxisms in wine is not a good thing. Wine already doesn't work on OpenBSD, has problems on NetBSD, fortunately the FreeBSD support is still quite serviceable for the 32bit apps I need to run but I don't see this change getting ported to FreeBSD anytime soon so more modern games that won't run on FreeBSD. Right now the best solution seems to be a ZFS FreeBSD solution for actual work and a separate SSD with WIndows 10 installed for games.
                    you can't run least mesa3d and Nvidia driver in BSD based OS why would DEV care about OS with bad design

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                    • #30
                      I hope this + fsync will land in 5.9.

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