Originally posted by aufkrawall
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Shadow of the Tomb Raider Now Officially Available For Linux
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Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
Dammit, because this is relevant to another thread I'm currently arguing in....it's "native" in the way that ZFS is native -- they took the Windows code-base and did enough to get it to compile and run on Linux w/o a layer like Wine.
It's like saying ZFS isn't Linux native because it's both an out of tree module as well as it originates from Solaris/BSD even though it's been rewritten in many places and compiles to native Linux code.
If XYZ program used a (I assume Feral used a) Linux compiler and the compiled code runs on Linux w/o a compat layer, it's native Linux code. Beyond that is getting pedantic and splitting hairs. And since Windows uses compat layers to run older programs, since Linux uses compat layers to run sandboxed programs, etc; the compat layer part is starting to not really matter all that much. Heck, Linux userspace can be considered a compat layer to the kernel...especially these days where we have plenty of GNU alternatives making every system not guaranteed to be a traditional GNU/Linux setup with all the traditional GNU/Linux programs and glibc.
Of if you're like the person I'm arguing with in the Zsys thread, SotTR will never be Linux native because it isn't part of the upstream Linux kernel
Another reason I am a bit grudgy here is that the performance delta between the Linux and Windows version of one of their ports which I play is massive on my hardware. I'd expect the same or at least similar performance from a "native port".
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Originally posted by ms178 View Post
I'd expect D3D12 to map relatively well to Vulkan due to their low-level nature and heritage of AMD's Mantle.
Thanks for the API, AMD.
&
Thanks for the short term memory loss, Weed.
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Originally posted by ms178 View Post
Isn't this an oxymoron? Either it is a native game or a ported game, it cannot be both?! As mentioned in another thread today, I'd opt to call it simply a Linux port. Any dissenting opinions here?
Either way, it's probably splitting hairs. As long as it works, who cares?
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Originally posted by ms178 View Postjacob, carewolf As posted in the other thread, there was a technical discussion about this on Reddit but I tend to use the word "native" like the op there does which is more restrictive: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gamin...ves_indirectx/
And yes, splitting hairs with the choice of words is part of my profession.
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Originally posted by ms178 View Post
I am not familiar with the ZFS discussion, the technical background might be different there. But with Feral games (at least older ports from them) there is some degradation in performance due to this source-level translation from an engine which was designed for DX to OGL.
Another reason I am a bit grudgy here is that the performance delta between the Linux and Windows version of one of their ports which I play is massive on my hardware. I'd expect the same or at least similar performance from a "native port".
Similar to Feral game ports then and now, ZFS had some performance hits due to that but it got better over time. The only difference between ZFS and Feral is Feral is able to tweak their cross-compiler/cross-porter (for a lack of better term) to get it better by using newer APIs, newer OGL versions, etc whereas the ZFS devs get shafted with GPL Exports and worse performance thanks to kernel devs being hostile towards them (and completely ignoring a past precedent where an out-of-tree differently/"wrongly" licensed module, for a file system no less, was granted a GPL exports exception...AFS if you're curious).
But, since we're discussing closed source games and Feral and not open source and ZFS, it's more about when it was ported over and how well Feral's porter worked at the time of porting. It would be nice if once a year or two they'd re-run their porting tool on older ported games, do some automated tests, and give us Steam Beta access to it if enough tests pass to hopefully fix or make better those performance hits you mention.
Out of curiosity, which game has that massive hit?
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Originally posted by carewolf View Post
In many ways the choice of words reveals an attitude toward nativism. It is a philosophical question, that can be summed up as: Are you are a racist? If somebody moves to your country adapts your customs and speaks you language, gets local citizenship and in all ways acts like anybody else there. Do you insist on calling him a foreigner or not?
EDIT: To keep it real: Or if they're black, some asshat like my Dad will say "Go back to Africa" because they're not people let alone Americans...
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Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
Out of curiosity, which game has that massive hit?
By the way, thanks for your explanations in regards to ZFS, but I am afraid I tend to agree with Britoid there.
carewolf, I'd rather stick to the technical discussion for now. But I found your philosophical step aside intriguing nonetheless.Last edited by ms178; 05 November 2019, 07:39 PM.
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Originally posted by jrdoane View Post
To me being "native" has nothing to do with the abstractions in the piece of software itself to work with different platforms and that "native" means you can take the binary and run it without something like WINE to translate API calls.
Either way, it's probably splitting hairs. As long as it works, who cares?
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Originally posted by ms178 View Post
Company of Heroes 2. And if it wasn't already bad, the performance on Linux took a 50% hit during the last quarter (from 22/24 fps with their in-build benchmark to 10 fps on a 6770M + dual core i5). I initially thought that the dGPU wasn't used at all, but I checked that it did. I got similar disastrous drops on my Ryzen + Vega 56 machine (distro was openSuse Tumbleweed with Mesa-git and default Mesa). All is fine on Windows 10 with this game though (wheras not really enjoyable for other reasons on the laptop).
By the way, thanks for your explanations in regards to ZFS, but I am afraid I tend to agree with Britoid there.
carewolf, I'd rather stick to the technical discussion for now. But I found your philosophical step aside intriguing nonetheless.. If you were to wager a guess, what should I expect with a 3.6ghz Intel Westmere and an RX 580 @1080p? I'm a bit intrigued if it'll play like crap or not...though I don't have a Windows install as a comparison...
But, regardless of what it is, if it's open source, can be compiled on my own system, and is for the Linux kernel, it's Linux native. If a proprietary Linux game can be considered Linux native because it runs on Linux w/o a compat layer and was compiled from source on not my own system, an open source kernel module should be considered Linux native regardless of its tree status or origin...Anyway, I'm sorry. But that just happens to be the way I feel about it ... What do you think?
(not an actual question -- quoting one of my favorite SG1 episodes there)
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