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Wine 4.6 Released With Initial Bits Towards Vulkan WineD3D Backend

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  • #31
    Originally posted by sdack View Post
    And how many are those? Right, a tiny amount really. I have plenty of games, of which many don't run, some run unstable or require specialized versions of WINE-Staging, and then still don't get within 50% of their Windows performance. And even for the one game that I keep running under Linux, because it has a lot less hardware requirements and gets within 20%-30% of the Windows performance do I still find many players in the game's forum, who have a hard time just getting it to run. WINE's AppDB is full of negative reports even when some manage to rate it as platinum. So your claim is far from being the normality and this is what you are referring to when you're trying to talk about reality. Those are exceptions. And we haven't even been talking about things such as DSR, MSAA, TXAA, AO, and other driver features only available to Windows users.

    If you want to pull numbers from Valve then just look at the Steam on Linux numbers. They've hardly moved up even with the release of Proton. Not to mention that not every good game is also available through Steam ...
    Just relax and enjoy whatever operating system you like. There is no point in arguing.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by sdack View Post
      If you want to pull numbers from Valve then just look at the Steam on Linux numbers. They've hardly moved up even with the release of Proton. Not to mention that not every good game is also available through Steam ...
      Think its only been 8 months from the release of Proton it takes people to get use to it.
      https://www.protondb.com/
      This is a interesting site to look at. If you untick the native you will see roughly 10 percent of games currently work perfectly under wine. Most of gold+ even that they require some tweaking if they are a dx10/dx11 game they also get inside 10% performance of windows. Here is the horrible part about gold+ some of the tweaking you have to do to get some games to work right you have todo under Windows as well. Platinum rating must straight work out box without doing anything other than run the installer and if you apply that rule to installing games under window that fails about 40% of the time.

      Lets look closer at those number.
      Roughly 50% of games work on Linux.
      Let presume the likes to play 10 games.
      That roughly gives the odds 1 in 1024 chance that all their games will work under Linux.
      So less than a 0.1% effect on steam on Linux numbers expected at this time. Basically undetectable.


      Please note I said for those who their games work Linux could currently be the best choice for them. I did not say how small of odds that currently is.

      Lets take a platform with 90% compatibility this is something most people don't consider. You take 10 games
      0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9*0.9=0.34867844 Yep 34% is is roughly 90 percent compatible.

      Yes as you scale out to more and more the number you get at 10 turns out to be the over all average for API compatibility percentage. Wine is a lot more complete than it first appears. The last 10 percent of API compatibility is a total hell.

      .
      Originally posted by sdack View Post
      And we haven't even been talking about things such as DSR, MSAA, TXAA, AO, and other driver features only available to Windows users.:
      May have paid to-do some more reading before writing that. MSAA came to the Intel driver in 2017, AMD driver has been a bit bad and Nvidia on Linux has had it as long as windows but there was a bug in it that dxvk found. TXAA has also been on linux and a long time and is support by dxvk.

      Ambient Occlusion is giving dxvk some trouble but is open to native Linux programs.

      DSR is one of those one where the feature is not in fact missing from Linux but I would not expect you to be able to find it on Linux because its not called that. https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/t...ing-on-linux-/ Yes Nvidia Linux drivers support it. No they don't put a nice interface on it and just so you cannot find it they don't name it DSR. The reality here is most of the feature people claim are drivers features only available to windows users most of the time not true. What happens is the feature X on Windows on Linux has at this stage been given a different name Y and has a horrible configure tool interface under Linux how it is 99.9% of the time with Nvidia. With AMD and Intel the feature has been there with no configuration tool to management but this is changing adriconf. So the arguement about missing graphics driver feature against Linux is mostly bogus. Lack of decent configuration tool for graphical card features and name uniformity between Windows and Linux for those features is the problem.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by bemerk View Post
        What is different in windows that makes the micro stutter not happening there?
        Lack of translation layer.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
          Lets look closer at those number.
          You do that.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by xpue View Post
            Lack of translation layer.
            That is not in fact true. Some DX11/10 games on windows you fix their micro stutter by installing dxvk because going the vulkan route you end up with less translation layers between application and hardware. Translation layers are part of Direct X design. Wined3d and dxvk take short cuts.

            The high number of translation layers in direct x have been known for quite some time its why particular corner cases historically had wined3d on windows beating native Direct X. The overhead of the opengl design restrictions kind of kills wined3d speed in lots of places.

            https://www.khronos.org/vulkan/portability-initiative
            Yes the fact Vulkan applications can be running on a translation layer on top of DX12 or Metal but on Linux Vulkan is native. This kind does put Windows and OS X at a disadvantage for particular games.

            Yes its simple to presume that Windows has less translation layers when you in fact have more. Its more how well optimised all the layers are including the scheduler if you have micro stutter or not. System wide settings are a big part of it.
            Last edited by oiaohm; 04-15-2019, 07:15 AM.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by sdack View Post
              You do that.
              Really you do need to look at those numbers again. Even at 1024 with the millions of gamers that is still quite a number.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by sdack View Post
                DSR, MSAA, TXAA, AO, and other driver features only available to Windows users.
                You are true about this point, antialiasing screws the performance in a lot of Windows games running on Linux, and without it, the performance is a lot better. In these cases, I use SweetFX, and enable SMAA for antialiasing without sacrificing the performance. This isn't perfect, but it is good for now at least.
                Last edited by torbido; 04-15-2019, 07:09 PM.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by torbido View Post
                  You are true about this point, antialiasing screws the performance in a lot of Windows games running on Linux, but without it. the performance is a lot better. In these cases, I use SweetFX, and enable SMAA for antialiasing without sacrificing the performance. This isn't perfect, but it is good for now at least.
                  https://github.com/turol/smaaDemo
                  This is SMAA demo. That right SMAA was demo under Linux first. What you are missing the injector to force it on applications.

                  Also SMAA is a classic the video card feature it uses is FXAA and normal shaders.

                  The reason why Sweet FX exists on windows is that a lot of games default AA will screw your game on Windows as well. So anti-aliasing ruining your gaming perform is not a Linux only problem.

                  The problem is lack of injector tool to force another set of AA settings on a game. Yes SweetFX on windows for DX9 and DX10/11 games shows this does not have to be part of the driver.

                  Also the Nvidia and AMD configuration tool under windows is providing injectors. Yes that is another section where Windows Users say this is a driver only feature on windows and list a stack of stuff that turns out to be native Linux. Reality is getting the problem wrong.

                  Windows users say MSAA, TXAA,SMAA,FXAA, AO.... support is missing but the truth is Linux drivers as those features are already there as good as Windows in fact most of the time faster. So they are asking for the wrong thing.

                  What is missing is injector to control how applications uses those features and heck even swap them at times so their game runs at speed. Notice the game unique profiles under windows graphics cards. Guess what these are up to lets change the features the game uses so it performs well.

                  So when you bring game on wine at times it runs horrible like 50% slower but that is playing the game the way the game developer made it without the video card provider or third party injector altering the code path to use different options to what the game developer intended.

                  Horrible coded games that there are quite few are quite a problem to fix.

                  If you look at Sweet FX database of game settings you will also notice that different games to fix them require different unique settings. Yes dxvk has grown per game configuration to attempt to deal with some of these issues as well.
                  https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...r-Game-Configs

                  So depending on what the Dx10/11 game issue is under windows will decide if you go video card injector or SweetFX injector or dxvk or system wide setting to fix issues like micro stuttering .

                  Please note wined3d really does not have decent per game settings only disable features so does not work around badly designed games.

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                  • #39
                    I've tested Quantum Break on Windows 7, and Linux Mint 19.1

                    On Windows7 there is no noticeable difference between using antialiasing and not using it.

                    On Linux Mint there is so much difference between using antialiasing and not using it, it is like splitting FPS to half, and that is unacceptable at all.
                    Last edited by torbido; 04-16-2019, 07:34 AM.

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