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A Half-Year Since Valve Released Steam Play For Linux, Its Marketshare Is Still Sub-1%

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  • #61
    Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post

    I play games with a dual processor Xeon x5687, 48GB DDR3 ECC, root on BTRFS, games on ZFS, with an RX 580. Is that server hardware enough? My hard drives are still 7200 rpm FWIW.

    Currently playing Dirt Rally and getting 60fps smooth, an average of 59fps, a minimum of 52fps, using a mix of ultra, high, and medium with 2x MSAA.
    That CPU is basically a first generation rebranded core i7. It even runs at 3.6Ghz which is respectable even though the IPC isn't Sandy Bridge level. RX 580 and a 7200 RPM drive isn't exactly server grade hardware. It is popular today to find cheap server hardware and repurpose it for gaming.

    But the stuff Google will be using for Stadia is likely to be high core count with low clock speed. Great for servers and compiling the Linux kernel but poor at playing games which want high clock speed and IPC. Their "custom" Radeon GPU's are not going to be very different from a Radeon VII. The most interesting thing about Stadia is how all these games will be running on Google's custom Debian OS, which suggests that Stadia games are indeed ported to Linux. It's a shame that after all that effort to get something as useless and Cloud Gaming that Google won't open up a competitor to Steam and allow us to download and install these games on Linux. What a waste.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Britoid View Post
      Having to add PPAs to get up to date drivers is retarded and no gamer should be expected to do that to game.

      Likewise, no gamer should be expected to use a rolling distro where things do break.
      This could be fixed with a simple button that you can use to add the PPA to your OS. I think Ubuntu had this for a while but stopped? Also Oibaf's PPA is not stable cause it's like a snapshot of Mesa, but considering how infrequently Linux distros upgrade their drivers, this is really the best choice. You could install Ubuntu on AMD or Intel hardware and use it without issue, but you won't get any new drivers for a long time without the PPA.

      Consequently my Ryzen system with a RX 480 running Windows 10 has been having driver crash issues for a year now and this stops when I don't use Firefox. People using AMD GPU's on Windows 10 have driver crash issues that isn't fixed yet and the solution is to go into your registry and enter TdrDelay with a higher value than what Windows 10 gives it. Doesn't work for me, the solution for me is to stop using FireFox and use Chrome instead . My FX 8350 with a RX 470 running Mint 19.1 doesn't have these issues and runs 24/7. OpenGL drivers for AMD users are awful in Windows while on Linux it's good as anyone who has tried running Citra, Cemu, and Yuzu will find. My Sound Blaster Recon3D stops working when I resume from sleep on Windows 10 and my solution is to hibernate the PC. Windows 10 isn't all peaches and cream.
      Last edited by Dukenukemx; 03 April 2019, 09:59 AM.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post
        That CPU is basically a first generation rebranded core i7. It even runs at 3.6Ghz which is respectable even though the IPC isn't Sandy Bridge level. RX 580 and a 7200 RPM drive isn't exactly server grade hardware. It is popular today to find cheap server hardware and repurpose it for gaming.
        Not counting the GPU or HDDs I only spent $400 on it all. It was a $10K workstation/server back in its day. I'm pointing out that my old ass Westmere Xeons and a 580 running games from spinning rust and DDR3 can easily push better than console graphics and performance. A modern CPU running at half the GHz using SSDs and DDR4 will have better performance than my CPU with a heck of a lot more threads and IO available.

        If a 9 year old server/workstation from Dell makes a good gaming PC in 2019, then yeah, modern server hardware will be great for gaming.

        I buy most of my hardware from enterprise liquidations. There's no way I'd pay full price for a workstation.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post

          Not counting the GPU or HDDs I only spent $400 on it all. It was a $10K workstation/server back in its day. I'm pointing out that my old ass Westmere Xeons and a 580 running games from spinning rust and DDR3 can easily push better than console graphics and performance. A modern CPU running at half the GHz using SSDs and DDR4 will have better performance than my CPU with a heck of a lot more threads and IO available.

          If a 9 year old server/workstation from Dell makes a good gaming PC in 2019, then yeah, modern server hardware will be great for gaming.

          I buy most of my hardware from enterprise liquidations. There's no way I'd pay full price for a workstation.
          It's no secret that Moore's Law is dead. As long as the CPU is quad core or higher with eight threads or higher then you're fine. Is it as good as a modern CPU? No, but it'll play modern games just fine at least 60 fps. Will a modern server CPU running at 2.6Ghz with 24+ cores play games just fine? Yes, but neither of these setups are midrange or high end gaming.

          The myth behind gaming on PC is that you need to spend lots of money to get a good experience, but that's far from the truth. This myth is perpetuated from Stadia as you have people that claim that it's equivalent to a RTX 2080 running on a Intel 9900K. People who have that kind of hardware laugh at the idea of 1080p 60fps. I have built my nephew a gaming PC that has a Ryzen 2200G and no GPU and that plays all the games at medium or high settings, depending on the game. That cost me less than $400 to build including a Windows 10 Pro license I bough for like $4 on Ebay. As much as I like Linux my 9 year old Nephew is not going to understand why Roblox and Fortnite doesn't run on Linux.

          There's a channel on YouTube called JERMgaming that built a $375 PC he calls the Potato masher and puts it against the Xbox One and PS4. The PC was built on hardware available in 2013 when these consoles were released and in all cases it out performed them. Besides the potential to run games at higher quality and higher frame rate than 60fps, you have choices where to buy games besides just one store like Stadia. There's gaming mods and emulators but I feel that's a bit beyond what most Stadia users are expected to achieve.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by atomsymbol
            I don't have data confirming your claims.
            Do you also ask for data when a confirmed stalker takes photos of your house to make sure he definitely takes of your bedroom? It's perfectly fine to assume he does. Considering how spyware Windows 10 is, you'd have to prove that it doesn't spy on your Linux partition, simple consequence of their actions.

            And nobody said it has to understand the filesystem, it can upload the raw partition behind your back, perhaps encrypted even.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post
              It's no secret that Moore's Law is dead. As long as the CPU is quad core or higher with eight threads or higher then you're fine. Is it as good as a modern CPU? No, but it'll play modern games just fine at least 60 fps. Will a modern server CPU running at 2.6Ghz with 24+ cores play games just fine? Yes, but neither of these setups are midrange or high end gaming.

              The myth behind gaming on PC is that you need to spend lots of money to get a good experience, but that's far from the truth. This myth is perpetuated from Stadia as you have people that claim that it's equivalent to a RTX 2080 running on a Intel 9900K. People who have that kind of hardware laugh at the idea of 1080p 60fps. I have built my nephew a gaming PC that has a Ryzen 2200G and no GPU and that plays all the games at medium or high settings, depending on the game. That cost me less than $400 to build including a Windows 10 Pro license I bough for like $4 on Ebay. As much as I like Linux my 9 year old Nephew is not going to understand why Roblox and Fortnite doesn't run on Linux.

              There's a channel on YouTube called JERMgaming that built a $375 PC he calls the Potato masher and puts it against the Xbox One and PS4. The PC was built on hardware available in 2013 when these consoles were released and in all cases it out performed them. Besides the potential to run games at higher quality and higher frame rate than 60fps, you have choices where to buy games besides just one store like Stadia. There's gaming mods and emulators but I feel that's a bit beyond what most Stadia users are expected to achieve.

              Just so everyone is aware, this user came in talking about how server hardware wouldn't be good enough for gaming, I pointed out that server hardware that is older than current generation consoles sans GPU runs circles around said consoles, and then that user moved the goal posts while conceding that modern server hardware is good enough for gaming.

              Now, according to this user, server hardware will play games just fine, but just not good enough to matter...completely omitting that if what Google is claiming is true, Stadia will play games at 4K 60FPS and that is equivalent to an RTX 2080 running on an Intel 9900K.

              I'll also add that my $400 crap box with an R7 260x, which is really close to the GPU that's in a PS4, ran games slightly better than the PS4 and that PC was completely comprised of 2010-2013 hardware with 10 year old hard drives. Yeah, my hard drives are like 13 years old or some shit now. I should really get an SSD...

              In that video you linked to, that CPU the guy is using is the shitty version of what I have running ~33% slower. His was a tock and mine is the tick past it. It was also only $20 compared to the $16 he spent...$35 because I bough two of them and got a discount on the 2nd one...technically I could say I spent less than he did since one of my processors was only $15 and I could restrict all my gaming to it with numa...did I dyslexia the tick/tock?

              So what have we all learned here? Any server grade CPU from 2010 & up @ 2.77Ghz is good enough for them to use for up to 1440p60 as long as it's paired with an 8GB RX 580 or higher (I have a 4GB 580 and I get close to maxing out my memory with really high graphics settings @ 1080p). Any server grade CPU @ 2.77GHz+ from 2018 and up paired with a damn Radeon VII will do 4K60 gaming just fine.

              It's all a moot point for me. My cable internet provider has at least a 40ms lag and I have bandwidth caps. I won't actually be able to use Stadia even if it is the shiznit.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post

                Just so everyone is aware, this user came in talking about how server hardware wouldn't be good enough for gaming, I pointed out that server hardware that is older than current generation consoles sans GPU runs circles around said consoles, and then that user moved the goal posts while conceding that modern server hardware is good enough for gaming.
                I said it isn't a gaming CPU, not that it isn't good enough. For 60fps it is enough but a Ryzen 2600 or Core i5 8400 would run circles around it due to higher clock speeds and IPC. Games today don't care about core count past four cores. 1080p 60fps is the majority but for things like 1440p 120hz monitors it would under perform. A lot has changed since 2011 Mr Google employee.
                Now, according to this user, server hardware will play games just fine, but just not good enough to matter...completely omitting that if what Google is claiming is true, Stadia will play games at 4K 60FPS and that is equivalent to an RTX 2080 running on an Intel 9900K.
                It just isn't. I'm no Nvidia fanboy or anything but even a RTX 2080 has a hard time doing 4k 60fps in some games, even with a 9900k at max settings. With lower settings sure but not max. A server GPU with a CPU bottle necking it sure would, and anything today running at 2.6Ghz with a Radeon VII equivalent is going to bottleneck the GPU.

                So what have we all learned here? Any server grade CPU from 2010 & up @ 2.77Ghz is good enough for them to use for up to 1440p60 as long as it's paired with an 8GB RX 580 or higher (I have a 4GB 580 and I get close to maxing out my memory with really high graphics settings @ 1080p). Any server grade CPU @ 2.77GHz+ from 2018 and up paired with a damn Radeon VII will do 4K60 gaming just fine.
                No... no it wouldn't. Keep in mind anything after Sandy Bridge has minor improvements to IPC, and anything past Haswell has like 1% to 3% IPC increase. A modern day Intel Xeon would do a better job than an old Opteron but you won't get mid range let alone high end levels of performance. Then again 1080p 60fps is something even a low end PC can do today. Hence why Stadia's performance claims aren't impressive at all.

                It's all a moot point for me. My cable internet provider has at least a 40ms lag and I have bandwidth caps. I won't actually be able to use Stadia even if it is the shiznit.
                Pinging a server isn't going to get you real world results. Where's the nearest Stadia server to you? You have to encode a video in real time and stream it to your PC to decode it in real time which is all going to create latency. Your wireless connection adds latency, your TV likely has high latency as well unless you were careful to buy a low latency TV. Your wireless gamepad adds latency.

                Also if you can't use Stadia then how is this ready then? I feel like Google should try to make Stadia into a Steam clone for Linux and not some cloud gaming platform cause they're going to make games for Linux anyway. As much as Google is for open source I rarely see them supporting Linux directly.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Weasel View Post
                  Do you also ask for data when a confirmed stalker takes photos of your house to make sure he definitely takes of your bedroom? It's perfectly fine to assume he does. Considering how spyware Windows 10 is, you'd have to prove that it doesn't spy on your Linux partition, simple consequence of their actions.

                  And nobody said it has to understand the filesystem, it can upload the raw partition behind your back, perhaps encrypted even.
                  You seem to know a lot about this. Can you point me to the memory location to the function of the current release of Windows you're using that transfers this data? Considering how simple it is to decompile Windows when they offer the symbols for free for driver development, it shouldn't be hard to track down proof of this data mining you're referring to.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Ironmask View Post
                    You seem to know a lot about this. Can you point me to the memory location to the function of the current release of Windows you're using that transfers this data? Considering how simple it is to decompile Windows when they offer the symbols for free for driver development, it shouldn't be hard to track down proof of this data mining you're referring to.
                    Since when does a "function" do anything without being called? Most likely a hidden service or app in the background which doesn't need to export its internal functions (indeed they could even be inlined by the compiler).

                    Also what part of the first paragraph you quoted did you not understand?

                    If you catch someone steal a TV once, you'll assume he's guilty by default from that point, unless proven innocent. It's just common sense.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by atomsymbol
                      Unless you provide credible evidence that Windows 10 operating system itself (and not a 3rd party Windows app downloaded from an untrusted site) performed such an upload, it is highly probable you fell for a conspiracy theory. It is hard to unlearn/disbelieve a conspiracy theory - please have patience if you believe in one.
                      See my previous reply to Ironmask.

                      When Windows has been a confirmed spyware for its own partition, it's just common sense to assume it will spy on everything else as well, unless proven innocent. No conspiracy, just common sense.

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