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DXVK Already Lands Vulkan Transform Feedback Support, RADV Posts Patches

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  • #11
    Originally posted by TemplarGR View Post

    It doesn't matter. If you are porting a D3D11 game to Linux and it uses stream output, you can just use the transform feedback extension now in your renderer instead of trying to implement another solution using compute shaders. It is simpler and faster. Sure, it is not ideal, but it saves time so it can help get more ports faster to Linux/Vulkan, and that is what counts in the short term.
    As far as I understand this you should not do this when porting a single game as you're able to replace the transform feedback with compute shaders. This is because the shaders using transform feedback are known at the time you do the port. Also in the long term you have to write compute shaders anyway as future hardware and/or drivers might remove transform feedback support. You really should use this extension only in the short term when translating unknown shaders (like DXVK does).

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    • #12
      Originally posted by V10lator View Post
      As far as I understand this you should not do this when porting a single game as you're able to replace the transform feedback with compute shaders. This is because the shaders using transform feedback are known at the time you do the port. Also in the long term you have to write compute shaders anyway as future hardware and/or drivers might remove transform feedback support. You really should use this extension only in the short term when translating unknown shaders (like DXVK does).
      You keep saying "should," which is the point templar was making.

      Porting tends to be done as cheaply as possible, because the profit margins are so tiny. It's why you hear everyone always complain about how terrible ports are, because "should" gets thrown out the window early on in the process and replaced by "whatever's easiest."

      Hopefully Feral and other porters are translating things over to compute shaders (that would part of making a "good" port), but it's fairly safe to assume that anything really complicated that will require a lot of work will probably just use this new transform feedback extension instead. Now how many games make this trivial vs how many would require lots of work? I have no idea.
      Last edited by smitty3268; 10-14-2018, 01:24 AM.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
        Porting tends to be done as cheaply as possible, because the profit margins are so tiny. It's why you hear everyone always complain about how terrible ports are, because "should" gets thrown out the window early on in the process and replaced by "whatever's easiest."
        TLDR; should vs "whatever's easiest" is based on company's principles and not necessarily profit margins.

        The real cause is of bad ports are mismanagement and bad technical design. Once you reach the point where have a ton of technical debt then profit margins won't even matter, it would cost less to trash the entire thing and do it over using a better design. Management can't tell that to the investors, so it's up to the slaves to just "make it work".

        Companies like Bethesda Game Studios (Creation Engine) and Electronic Arts (Frostbite) simply don't care. They see good design as risk because they don't have the right people in place who make important decisions. Profit margins have nothing to do with it in their case either (relatively speaking). They know about their technical debt and simply just want something that is runnable.

        On the other side you have companies like Valve (Source), Epic Games (Unreal Engine), id Software (id Tech)* and smaller ones like 4A Games (4A Engine) or Croteam (Serious Engine) who all seem to be taking the right (or at the very least better) approach.

        Critics don't take technical quality into account, so companies who just care about getting the most out of the buyer gets away with it and at the same time companies who do the right thing suffers due to that. At the end of the day we get what we ask for.

        *id Software seemed to have lost the plot a few years after ZeniMax Media took over.
        Last edited by Jabberwocky; 10-15-2018, 06:58 PM.

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