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  • #51
    Originally posted by birdie View Post

    Anything in particular that is wrong with it? Or it's just your feeling that it's wrong?
    Lots of it that I don't know where to start. In general, much of the article is complaining about internal details that don't affect the average user. It also complains about non-issues in many places. All major OSes have their own share of problems, yet they are working fine as a mass OS. For example:
    * It complains about systemd, yet average users don't deal directly with systemd. I've been on Linux for years and I don't recall the system hanging due to systemd and I'm running it on multiple machines.
    * It complains about PulseAudio, yet the audio situation on Linux from my experience is better than it is on Mac (comparing my system with my colleagues who use Mac and have way more audio issues than I have).
    * It complains about stuff related to remote desktop protocol, and that is clearly a linux-on-servers issue rather than linux-on-desktop, that is, if you want to consider it an issue in the first place.
    * It complains about some functionalities being in the toolkit rather than in the OS. How does that affect the end-user? It may affect developers, but not users.
    * It complains about resume-after-suspend as a Linux issue, yet it's clearly a driver issue. If you use a laptop with proper driver support you almost never have an issue.
    * It complains about "not enough manpower" for gnome and kde. Why would the end user care?

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    • #52
      Originally posted by sarmad View Post

      Lots of it that I don't know where to start. In general, much of the article is complaining about internal details that don't affect the average user. It also complains about non-issues in many places. All major OSes have their own share of problems, yet they are working fine as a mass OS. For example:
      * It complains about systemd, yet average users don't deal directly with systemd. I've been on Linux for years and I don't recall the system hanging due to systemd and I'm running it on multiple machines.
      * It complains about PulseAudio, yet the audio situation on Linux from my experience is better than it is on Mac (comparing my system with my colleagues who use Mac and have way more audio issues than I have).
      * It complains about stuff related to remote desktop protocol, and that is clearly a linux-on-servers issue rather than linux-on-desktop, that is, if you want to consider it an issue in the first place.
      * It complains about some functionalities being in the toolkit rather than in the OS. How does that affect the end-user? It may affect developers, but not users.
      * It complains about resume-after-suspend as a Linux issue, yet it's clearly a driver issue. If you use a laptop with proper driver support you almost never have an issue.
      * It complains about "not enough manpower" for gnome and kde. Why would the end user care?
      I'm running Fedora 29 and I still occasionally get 90 seconds pauses when trying to reboot/shut down my PC - this wonderful piece of software says, "Waiting for some job to finish" and doesn't specify what it is, and neither I have any background processes.

      PulseAudio might be better than what people have on Mac, but it's nowhere near what people get on Windows.

      I've lost you in regard to the remote desktop stuff. It's incongruous. What servers? What are you even talking about? Remote desktoping is an essential feature of Windows and it's highly sought after yet you mentioned servers, what?

      I've lost you about "some functionalities being in the toolkit". There's no Linux OS - the article is about Linux distros in general which strangely cannot run without toolkits. Linux on the desktop is worth nothing without GTK/Qt/Xlib/Enlightenment/etc.

      Oh, so Linux is automatically great for the desktop because you need to buy special hardware just to be able to run it properly? Wow. If that's not utterly ridiculous for you I don't know what is. People won't get rid of their perfectly working hardware because Linux is not compatible with it. Also, where's a list of HW which is known to work with Linux without bugs? Haven't seen one anywhere on the net.

      Considering the gazillion of bugs/issues for both DEs the user does care.

      In summary, not a single worthy argument unfortunately. Besides, you chose to argue about some very particular points of the article while on the whole it remains true and everything under the Summary and Works for Me sections holds true.

      Try harder next time.
      Last edited by birdie; 10-03-2018, 05:02 PM.

      Comment


      • #53
        Originally posted by birdie View Post

        I'm running Fedora 29 and I still occasionally get 90 seconds pauses when trying to reboot/shut down my PC - this wonderful piece of software says, "Waiting for some job to finish" and doesn't specify what it is, and neither I have any background processes.

        PulseAudio might be better than what people have on Mac, but it's nowhere near what people get on Windows.

        I've lost you in regard to the remote desktop stuff. It's incongruous. What servers? What are you even talking about? Remote desktoping is an essential feature of Windows and it's highly sought after yet you mentioned servers, what?

        I've lost you about "some functionalities being in the toolkit". There's no Linux OS - the article is about Linux distros in general which strangely cannot run without toolkits. Linux on the desktop is worth nothing without GTK/Qt/Xlib/Enlightenment/etc.

        Oh, so Linux is automatically great for the desktop because you need to buy special hardware just to be able to run it properly? Wow. If that's not utterly ridiculous for you I don't know what is. People won't get rid of their perfectly working hardware because Linux is not compatible with it. Also, where's a list of HW which is known to work with Linux without bugs? Haven't seen one anywhere on the net.

        Considering the gazillion of bugs/issues for both DEs the user does care.

        In summary, not a single worthy argument unfortunately. Besides, you chose to argue about some very particular points of the article while on the whole it remains true and everything under the Summary and Works for Me sections holds true.

        Try harder next time.
        I take it that you can install MacOS on any hardware you want? What is a Windows fan doing in an open source forum anyway?

        Comment


        • #54
          Originally posted by birdie View Post

          I'm running Fedora 29 and I still occasionally get 90 seconds pauses when trying to reboot/shut down my PC - this wonderful piece of software says, "Waiting for some job to finish" and doesn't specify what it is, and neither I have any background processes.

          PulseAudio might be better than what people have on Mac, but it's nowhere near what people get on Windows.
          In my humble personal experience the sound experience on Windows is terrible compared to GNU/Linux with PulseAudio, which is not perfect but works great most of the times (unlike Windows).

          In fact I know many "average users" using Ubuntu and very happy about it. For many people it's a much better option than Windows, cleaner, safer, easier to use. The major friction for adoption is the OS installation.

          Originally posted by birdie View Post
          Oh, so Linux is automatically great for the desktop because you need to buy special hardware just to be able to run it properly? Wow. If that's not utterly ridiculous for you I don't know what is. People won't get rid of their perfectly working hardware because Linux is not compatible with it. Also, where's a list of HW which is known to work with Linux without bugs? Haven't seen one anywhere on the net.

          Considering the gazillion of bugs/issues for both DEs the user does care.
          Ubuntu worked fine out of the box on every hardware I've tested it on. Many times the hardware actually worked better than on Windows (trackpads, special keyboard keys, general responsiveness, old hardware etc.). A dedicated GPU simply requires to install a PPA to get the full performance. Easier and faster than installing the NVIDIA crap on Windows. Done 100% with a GUI.

          There are indeed bugs sometimes however to be honest stability have improved so much, and I don't see more issues on Linux than Windows..

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