PlayOnLinux 5.0 Alpha Released With Redesigned UI, Phoenicis

[Ray54]

Some of us don't want to install bloated garbage just to run some shitty coded software.

I don't even have that crap Python installed so I cringe whenever I see a useful project written in it. I only use Python in LXC containers if I can't find another way.

And Java's environment is 1000 times worse than Python's.

Sorry Weasel, but the days of 'C' programs compiling to a few thousand bytes of code is unfortunately long gone. Twenty years ago Java was considered the height of bloat, but now it is pretty light. I suspect most modern semi-compiled languages, will have far more bloat than Java. Then with downloading packages in either snap or flatpack format it probably makes even the worst language bloat look small.

[Degra]

Some of us don't want to install bloated garbage just to run some shitty coded software.

I don't even have that crap Python installed so I cringe whenever I see a useful project written in it. I only use Python in LXC containers if I can't find another way.

And Java's environment is 1000 times worse than Python's.

On the contrary, I would say Python is FAR more bloat.
With Java 9, they did 2 things:
1) Modularize Java's JDK
2) Make it possible to bundle everything (including the JDK) together with your Java program (and even distribute compiled executables of your Java program), so that you don't need to require people they have their JDK installed.

Both things together means you need to download and install exactly 0 packages from your distro's package repository.
How many Python packages do you need to install for a couple of Python programs from a repository? 100? 200?

[PluMGMK]

Funny, when I saw "Phoenicis" I assumed it meant they had adopted wxPython Phoenix. Instead I find they've switched to Java. Hmm. Personally I far prefer Python, but whatever.

[stevecrox]

On the contrary, I would say Python is FAR more bloat.
With Java 9, they did 2 things:
1) Modularize Java's JDK
2) Make it possible to bundle everything (including the JDK) together with your Java program (and even distribute compiled executables of your Java program), so that you don't need to require people they have their JDK installed.

Both things together means you need to download and install exactly 0 packages from your distro's package repository.
How many Python packages do you need to install for a couple of Python programs from a repository? 100? 200?

I was bundling Java when Eclipse RCP applications were cool and while the JDK had an initial load penalty using Eclipse extensions/OSGI let you build some properly small and lightweight applications <10MB of RAM. We built a host of RCP applications that destroyed their C/C++ MFC counterparts. Primarily because SWT was better than MFC but mostly because the average Java developer had less chance to shoot themselves in the foot than the average C++ developer.

Arguing about dependencies doesn't really make sense in Python/Ruby/Maven, it's better to have 100+ dependencies which are small libraries than some massive 5Mb kitchen sink library. Node.JS is different I remember in Node.JS v0.4 arguing Joyent needed to steal Maven's dependency management approach they told us they knew better now its different versions of the same dependencies to 12 levels.

For me back end logic needs to be type safe and type safety is a serious pain in handling UI's because it generates massive amounts of boilerplate. Which is why I wouldn't use Python or Java for a desktop application.

[skierpage]

And Java's environment is 1000 times worse than Python's.

Hey Phoronix commentators:

No one takes you seriously if you mindlessly exaggerate to make your $0.02¢ opinions sound more profound.

[gmturner]

Libraries are a good idea. They're an old idea and have some obvious limitations and issues, but when they work, they save you memory and disk space, and keep development from endless redundancy and bifurcation. When your software has lots of dependencies, you mostly win. When your software stands alone, you mostly lose. At least that's my assessment. Playonlinux, fwiw, is a tool to help you vendor wine instances, each instance of which effectively vendors Windows. That's a very bloated strategy, and in my experience, it doesn't even work very well (but I don't run Ubuntu or whatever they are targeting).

[vein]

Some of us don't want to install bloated garbage just to run some shitty coded software.

I don't even have that crap Python installed so I cringe whenever I see a useful project written in it. I only use Python in LXC containers if I can't find another way.

And Java's environment is 1000 times worse than Python's.

In modern java applications you do not need anything extra installed. It was actually a long time ago you needed the jre installed to run java apps. I bet you are running a lot of Java based programs without even knowing it....

[TemplarGR]

Java is a great language. But many people judge modern versions of Java by the problems of the 90s... For example stuff like "java is slow", "java is bloated", "java is not good for opensource projects", are all arguments of the 90s...

In my professional opinion Java is one of the best languages in the industry right now and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. It is incredibly versatile, you can literally build any kind of project with just Java...

People who claim that garbage like Python are better are simply delusional, no need to waste time explaining... Rest assured that if Java was open source from the start Python would have been history by now...

[vein]

Java is a great language. But many people judge modern versions of Java by the problems of the 90s... For example stuff like "java is slow", "java is bloated", "java is not good for opensource projects", are all arguments of the 90s...

In my professional opinion Java is one of the best languages in the industry right now and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. It is incredibly versatile, you can literally build any kind of project with just Java...

People who claim that garbage like Python are better are simply delusional, no need to waste time explaining... Rest assured that if Java was open source from the start Python would have been history by now...

I agree that Java is a great language, but Oracles new license and the 6-month release strategy on openjdk is destroying it. Many people jump the ship due to this. We are getting around it by using a red hat jdk but anyways...ti sucks...