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The Once Very Promising Unvanquished Game Hasn't Seen A New Release In Two Years

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  • The Once Very Promising Unvanquished Game Hasn't Seen A New Release In Two Years

    Phoronix: The Once Very Promising Unvanquished Game Hasn't Seen A New Release In Two Years

    Going back several years one of our most favorite open-source games to monitor was the Unvanquished game project with its roots in the Tremulous game and built off the Daemon Engine that is a distant fork to ioquake3 by way of the also once very promising ET: XreaL work...

    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...-Alive-In-2018

  • #2
    I completely forgot about this. I remember this was one of the go-to for PTS benchmarks, back when Steam wasn't really used on Linux (and in turn, very few commercial games to test from).

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    • #3
      I lost interest in this game (though I was a long term Trem player) when the developers refused to accept any feedback from players. They had an idea of how they wanted the game to work and they had no interest in hearing that their idea was a bad one. They lost playtesters, they lost developers, and now they have run the ship aground.

      And it's horribly unfortunate as their rework had a lot of promise, but they lost their way and left their community behind.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by willmore View Post
        I lost interest in this game […] when the developers refused to accept any feedback from players.
        I experienced an exact opposite story: I'm the proof someone can start translating some strings and then one day get the lead. So, the developers not only heard my feedback, they gave me full control. That's the most welcoming and trusting community I ever seen: they not only hear you they can give you full control.

        So where are you? In this article Michael focused on the lack of manpower, feedback is useful but can't substitute manpower. Perhaps your feedback just lacked some proofs of concept and implementations, but those require a contributor.

        I don't like the concept of meritocraty (it's just another name for the law of the strongest), but obviously to get ideas implemented they have to be implemented and someone has to jump from talker to contributor status. It's not about merit, it's about things having to be done to be done.

        Note that's it's a hobby project so people have other things to do in their live, staff movement tells nothing about the project itself: it tells about people's life. People get a new job, people have a family, people lost relatives, people meet new people and start new connections. That project is 6 years old, in 6 years a lot of things happen: child becomes a man, man becomes a dad, dad becomes grand-pa.
        Last edited by illwieckz; 04-25-2018, 01:58 PM.

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        • #5
          Assault cube is the game i would love to see official releases of , again ; the lightweight counter strike clone would be terrific for reiforcement learning

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          • #6
            Originally posted by illwieckz View Post

            I experienced an exact opposite story: I'm the proof someone can start translating some strings and then one day get the lead. So, the developers not only heard my feedback, they gave me full control. That's the most welcoming and trusting community I ever seen: they not only hear you they can give you full control.

            So where are you? In this article Michael focused on the lack of manpower, feedback is useful but can't substitute manpower. Perhaps your feedback just lacked some proofs of concept and implementations, but those require a contributor.

            I don't like the concept of meritocraty (it's just another name for the law of the strongest), but obviously to get ideas implemented they have to be implemented and someone has to jump from talker to contributor status. It's not about merit, it's about things having to be done to be done.

            Note that's it's a hobby project so people have other things to do in their live, staff movement tells nothing about the project itself: it tells about people's life. People get a new job, people have a family, people lost relatives, people meet new people and start new connections. That project is 6 years old, in 6 years a lot of things happen: child becomes a man, man becomes a dad, dad becomes grand-pa.
            That is just your justification. Then we can say same thing for all open source movements.

            When you announce you're doing something , it is pretty normal to people get into expectations.

            Also , not every one has to know coding , committing fixes etc. That expectation would be the same with saying this : Every pc user is also a developer.

            C'mon , just because these projects are open source ; people have no right to be sad or dissappointed about them?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Leopard View Post
              people have no right to be sad or dissappointed about them?
              No one said people have no right to be sad or disappointed.

              What I say is: the only way to get the change you need is to do it or to find someone to do it. That last part of this sentence is very important, one of the former lead was not a developer at all, but he was very good at finding contributors and giving others things to do. That's very precious and that's an efficient way to change things and solve problems.

              People have right to be sad or disappointed, but to get a thing changed, people needs to change it or to find someone to change it.

              The question I have for sad and disappointed people is: do they have any interest in being sad or being disappointed? Because having an interest in being sad or disappointed is the best way to prevent changes that solves sadness and disappointment.

              Waiting while being sad is the best way to remain sad. Being sad is a motivational feeling powering life-changing decisions. If you can't change things, it's saner to not be sad about them.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by illwieckz View Post

                No one said people have no right to be sad or disappointed.

                What I say is: the only way to get the change you need is to do it or to find someone to do it. That last part of this sentence is very important, one of the former lead was not a developer at all, but he was very good at finding contributors and giving others things to do. That's very precious and that's an efficient way to change things and solve problems.

                People have right to be sad or disappointed, but to get a thing changed, people needs to change it or to find someone to change it.

                The question I have for sad and disappointed people is: do they have any interest in being sad or being disappointed? Because having an interest in being sad or disappointed is the best way to prevent changes that solves sadness and disappointment.

                Waiting while being sad is the best way to remain sad. Being sad is a motivational feeling powering life-changing decisions. If you can't change things, it's saner to not be sad about them.
                If you think about it this article is a way for Michael to inform the larger public that the project could use some more skilled hands, and as such it's a contribution, even if you don't appreciate the way it's presented.

                Speaking here as a developer on Digital Paintball, KZmod, Insects Infestation, Nuclear Dawn and a fair share of games and mods that went no where after months of effort.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by illwieckz View Post
                  I don't like the concept of meritocraty (it's just another name for the law of the strongest), but obviously to get ideas implemented they have to be implemented and someone has to jump from talker to contributor status. It's not about merit, it's about things having to be done to be done.
                  So when you have complex technical projects to complete, you don't think the responsible organization should seek out the best and brightest talent? They should use any old bum who raises his hand? Sorry, this is not how the world works. The fact is, most endeavors that have any value at all, require skilled people, and skilled people are a scarce commodity. Merit is king.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by AJenbo View Post
                    If you think about it this article is a way for Michael to inform the larger public that the project could use some more skilled hands, and as such it's a contribution, even if you don't appreciate the way it's presented.
                    I do think this article is a way for Michael to inform the larger public that the project could use some more skilled hands and as such is a contribution. Michael did his job well and I'm thankful for that. I was myself hoping for such an article and I'm happy to see Michael focused on the lack of manpower, which is exactly what Unvanquished needs. I myself shared this phoronix Article everywhere I was able to share it. That is constructive.

                    When I speak about useless sadness I speak about comments like the one by willmore. Really, how can it be possible that a totally random dude like me that was not a developer and was just a random player on the internet like him became the one writing official blog post for the project? How can this be compatible with the idea of not even hearing to people? They not only hear people, they give people the mic, that's a fact. For sure, sadness is never a constructive thing.

                    A quick compute shows me 503 commits on code repositories since last release and 635 commits on data repositories since last release, so 1138 commits in two years, it means 1.5 commit per day. That's not really compatible with the idea of “they lost developers, and now they have run the ship aground” as willmore says. Yes development slowed down, but Willmore probably haven't read that very important part of the original blogpost:

                    It looks like we are close to a release, what is preventing us to release is we all have very busy lives, sadly it’s just that. There is enough manpower to fix things day after day but playing the release dance needs a bit more than that.
                    Release slow down is mainly due to personal issues in people's life, but I don't have to disclose such personal informations. It's a hobby project, manpower is welcome, rant is not.

                    There was also a lot of development done on the toolchain side, which are third-party products (like the level editor, the map compiler), one big reason behind the release slow down is the need to clean-up things to rebase on a cleaner environment and to get a cleaner workflow. This takes time, a lot of time. How can you do monthly release when you break file formats?

                    During these past two years we just shipped updates as backports directly on servers thanks to in-game autodownload mechanism, but nothing was advertised as a release. Almost everything from next release is already playable and hosted on servers as backports, we were able to backports updates during two years without having to publish a new release, that's a great achievement and tells a lot about the stability of the project and how the architecture is strong.

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