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Wine "PBA" Shows Potential For Improving Direct3D-Over-OpenGL Performance

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  • #31
    Originally posted by sebastianlacuesta View Post
    Possibly silly question: Is it possible (theoretically) to implement a vulkan subset in order to run vk9 on top of it for hardware dx9 capable without performance loss?
    If they are needing to implement Vulkan, then vk9 over it, it would be easier to implement gallium nine.

    It is possible, but would depend on what features vk9 uses. Nothing stops you from making a non conforming drives, so long as you don't call it Vulkan.

    Also, vk9 can use newer features to improve performance, which may limit the hardware it can be implemented on.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by iyxwsoekthsv View Post
      I meant its quality. It's up-to-par. It's an example. That kind of industry standard. The kind of coding standard other engines might do well following.
      no, industry standard is unity or ue. and they both are linux native

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      • #33
        Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
        Its items like GL_ARB_buffer_storage not being implemented thinking how long Nvidia closed source drivers have had it shows that wine developers have not exactly been focusing on Nvidia.
        because they are focusing on nvidia for osx

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        • #34
          Originally posted by debianxfce View Post
          Technically android is a flop
          but marketshare-wise it dominates

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          • #35
            Originally posted by bemerk View Post
            I would say we don't have any gallium dx.
            you are not the first uninformed commenter here
            Originally posted by bemerk View Post
            Nine is not actively developed and not usable in normal wine.
            wrong
            Originally posted by bemerk View Post
            Vulkan will make this unnecessary and so will the move to higher versions of DirectX.
            neither vulkan nor higher versions of dx will help already released software

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            • #36
              Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
              With Nvidia try getting firmware for different cards to use open source drivers. So there are a lot of Nvidia cards were Nouveau is absolutely no go. This makes Gallium Nine absolute no go for those users.
              who cares about sponsors of most linux-hostile vendor?
              Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
              Cross platform Gallium Nine also comes a problem.
              why linux users should care?

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              • #37
                Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

                Prior art has to be listed in the extension application. This extension there is no prior. Really the document above also shows it did not exist before 2013 or opengl 4.4.

                I had not over simplified. There was no NV_ or ATI_ of this feature.
                I stand corrected.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post
                  I don't care about cross platform as the other platforms are Mac and Android. Mac is limited to specific hardware and isn't open source, and Android mostly runs on ARM chips. This is a concern for Codeweavers, and I don't care for their business model.
                  Really short sited much. Codeweavers is the sole funder of the winehq.org website and all the QA systems.

                  So its very simple to say I don't care. The reality is nasty. If codeweavers cannot make money. Mainline wine cannot move forwards this would also kill the development of wine staging.

                  So if you want don't consider the cross platform you better have another way to fund the project.

                  Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post
                  Vulkan works, but my concern is how to expose it for older AMD GCN cards. As of right now I have to put commands in Grub and make a 20-AMDGPU.conf file to get it to work. Why do I need to do this for Vulkan?
                  That stuff is more a simple case the drivers are not dependable on all hardware yet. To still having reported cases of total hard lockups. Hopeful this stuff should resolve itself with time.

                  Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post
                  If you use emulators like Dolphin and RPCS3, Vulkan makes a huge difference. Even though Wine is not an emulator, the way it handles graphics through wined3d is very much like how emulators work. Which is why something like DX11 over Vulkan is huge.
                  It not a black and white. One of the things to be aware of is opengl 4.6 contains fragments from Vulkan.

                  DX11 over Vulkan for cross platform there is advantages with like android devices adding Vulkan what has a habit of being way newer than their Opengl. Like 3.3 opengl on a android device vs a current Vulkan both implement a compatibility layer for DX11 the the Vulkan one is going to win in performance.

                  Now DX11 on opengl 4.6 vs DX11 on Vulkan this is a very hard call. As all the features DX11 needs are provided by opengl 4.6 so performance is going to close. DX12 is the one that never be implemented in Opengl. The fact the perform in theory can be close is why codeweavers is still funding it developers to complete wined3d out. Remember when wined3d starts opengl on Linux was no where need as good as it is now.

                  As you said there are at this stage still older cards where getting Vulkan to work is hard work so opengl support will be required for a while yet. Its not like galluim nine works on all cards..

                  Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post
                  You keep questioning it while I continue to use Gallium Nine. Wine developers don't have a good track record with wined3d. How long did it take them to get CSMT enabled by default? While CrossOver has had it since 2014.
                  Number 1 here you are not look at two different set of developers. Code-weavers CSMT developers until it mainlined were assisting with Staging. This was one of the big changes of wine 3.0 release. CSMT developers now focused purely on mainline.

                  Also the front end in crossover was also automatically disabling CSMT and also automatically moving dlls entries around in the front end calls bottles that in the backed is WINEPREFIX for list of applications they knew were broken. Remember one of the core wine project objectives is to attempt to get to where stuff works without using users having to play with settings. So the wine project is self has quite a high bar to entry this is required to make a solid foundation that other things can be built on.

                  Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post
                  For me, half my games wouldn't work on regular wine. Wine-staging is a requirement.
                  Does the wine project know is there bugs and appdb entries that are current so developers know those games need work???

                  You have to remember wine mainline releases a new version about every 2 weeks with a huge number of patches. This means a pool of patches like staging outside mainline at some point is going to break and going to require a lot of resources to fix if its patch number gets allowed to massive grow.

                  Due to what wine has to do for video card support so DX applications get correct information you cannot stay on a old verison of wine forever because it will break when you attempt to move to new hardware.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by pal666 View Post
                    who cares about sponsors of most linux-hostile vendor?
                    Reality is your comment is to anyone who has a Nvidia card that has to use Nvidia drivers stuff you. So caring about if people with items requiring closed source drivers can work is part require to support Linux end users. Like boss buys someone a laptop with Nvidia they have to live with it.


                    Originally posted by pal666 View Post
                    why linux users should care?
                    Fine don't care but please explain how in heck is wine QA system going to be funded. If someone can answer with a method of funding that works codeweavers would have no problem going pure Linux.

                    Software development like it or not costs money,

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

                      Really short sited much. Codeweavers is the sole funder of the winehq.org website and all the QA systems.

                      So its very simple to say I don't care. The reality is nasty. If codeweavers cannot make money. Mainline wine cannot move forwards this would also kill the development of wine staging.

                      So if you want don't consider the cross platform you better have another way to fund the project.
                      Want to say, responding to your post is like a homework assignment. It's freakin huge.

                      Anyway, codeweavers main benefits is their contribution to wined3d. As we can see its worked so well that the community had to step in to make Gallium Nine, and they shit all over it. Now the community stepped in again with VK9 and soon a DX11 to Vulkan. Don't forget this very performance tweak.

                      If codeweavers were to disappear, the community would fork it and continue it. Like Wine-Staging where three gentlemen took over. Go check out the thread on how many people were upset that Wine-Staging devs left it. Codeweavers wouldn't be missed.

                      As you said there are at this stage still older cards where getting Vulkan to work is hard work so opengl support will be required for a while yet. Its not like galluim nine works on all cards..
                      Nobody is saying to abandon OpenGL, but Gallium Nine has proven it works well. Vulkan has also proven to benefit emulators. It took four years for Wine to enable CSMT by default. There's a reason why Wine-Staging became so popular. Not that other people didn't fork it to implement CSMT.


                      Remember one of the core wine project objectives is to attempt to get to where stuff works without using users having to play with settings. So the wine project is self has quite a high bar to entry this is required to make a solid foundation that other things can be built on.
                      Play On Linux does a far better job at this than plain Wine, and it's not like the devs are fans of that project.

                      Does the wine project know is there bugs and appdb entries that are current so developers know those games need work???
                      Doom 2016 needs Vulkan which I hear they're going to do something about it, but I need Wine-Staging for it. Same goes for Origin and Uplay games I have. Whatever it is that's needed, the Wine-Staging guys knew about it since they patched it. I think one of the things the new Wine-Staging guys are trying to do is see if the Wine devs can main the patches to reduce the huge list of patches they do.

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